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New York Times best-selling author Jonah Goldberg said Monday political leftism is related to fascism and criticized the University of Wisconsin’s traditionally liberal political atmosphere.
The Los Angeles Times columnist and author of “Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning” told a crowd of about 200 UW students he has a problem with the fact the term “progressive” has come to mean “good” while the term “fascist” has come to be applied to “any conservative who is winning a fight.”
He said it is inappropriate to equate fascism with conservatism because fascism is more closely related to left-wing progressivism.
According to Goldberg, conservatives believe in a laissez faire-type of free market and a respect for Christian traditions and these are “two things that Nazis and fascists hate.”
On the other hand, Goldberg said, modern progressives like Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., preach the importance of unity and getting everybody to move in the same direction.
“The idea everyone has to be a part of the movement would be entirely recognizable to fascists and Nazis and the Soviets and all those totalitarianisms of the left,” Goldberg said.
He said the main thing to remember about government is that it has limitations to its power, and when that boundary is crossed that is called “fascism.”
“A state that thinks it has a mandate to hug you is still a tyrannical state if that hug is unwanted,” Goldberg said. “The government can’t love you. It can’t be anything other than the government.”
Donald Downs, UW political science professor, said the far left and the far right of the political spectrum can both breed fascism.
“Some aspects of progressivism can be detrimental to freedom, but that doesn’t make them fascism,” Downs said.
According to Downs, the American intellectual class “has tended to focus on the right-wing form of totalitarianism” because it does not see the USSR as being as evil as Nazism.
He said neither side of America’s political debate are fascists, however, adding both respect the rule of law as well as individuals’ rights that are both basic principles of liberal democracy.
Goldberg also described UW liberals as having “open-toed shoes and a closed mind.” He added Obama claimed to be continuing the progressive tradition of early UW progressives while making his victory speech in Madison after winning the Virginia primary.
The trouble with these progressive UW figures, however, including former UW president Charles Van Hise, is they were “soaked-to-the-bone racists,” according to Goldberg. He said he gives Obama a break for that error because he did not know what he was talking about and just wanted to invoke the positive term “progressive.”
Goldberg was also critical of people with bumper stickers that say things like, “Bush is scary.” He added this is a case of “incredible moral vanity.”
“The reason you can have those bumper stickers is because he’s not scary,” Goldberg said.
Goldberg’s speech was hosted by Collegians For A Constructive Tomorrow, a student group focused on improving economic and environmental conditions through the exercise of the free market.
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What a surprise, not.
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… he’s never read the 14 characteristics of fascism, has he?
Jonah Goldberg is a world-class idiot.
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There are fascists on both sides of the political spectrum. Although Jonah Goldberg goes over the top, he does have a point.
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Is this guy for real? Fascism is sort of the antithesis of both progressivism and Communism. It’s merely right-wing, free market populism. Look at what happened in Chile. Pinochet, a self-avowed fascist (he openly supported Mussolini) overthrew an elected Socialist to bring free market reforms and subjugate the working class to the elite class. Why are my seg fees paying for this political pandering shit? First Malkin, then this clown.
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“Donald Downs, UW political science professor, said the far left and the far right of the political spectrum can both breed fascism.”
The right-wing fascism of General Pinochet killed a few thousand, at worst. Such exceptionalism on the political right pales in comparison to the long train of Leftist fascist monsters— Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Honneker, Mussolini, Caeucescu, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi, il Sung, Mugabe, Mengistu, Castro, Che, PFLP, PKK, FMLN, FARC, IRA, ETA, Red Army faction, Shining Path, Rachel Carson, etc., ad nauseum— were all inspired by Leftist Marxism.
Moreover, Dr. John Ray has exhaustively demonstrated that Hitler was a Marxist. http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id9.html
100s of millions of corpses don’t lie. Show us some intellectual consistency and own it, Leftists.
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Jonah Goldberg is right. Liberals have been bitching for years about how fascist conservatives are, but liberals are no different.
I’m sure that if conservatives were to leave office today, liberals would leave the same fascist apparatus in place and use it the same way.
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Is it even possible for “liberals” to be fascist? Fascism has a particular ideology defined, just like Communism. Referring to liberals as fascists is no less name-calling than when they themselves use the term.
As to the Dr. John Ray comment… you can cite Tripod websites in research papers, right? And remember, Kevin Barrett is a Ph.D. too. Hitler capitalized on working class sentiments to rise to power, but the Third Reich was hardly a dictatorship of the proletariat.
Stop assuming that all “leftists” (i.e. anyone left of Zell Miller) are Marxists. A number of us on the “far left” criticize Stalin nearly as much as Mussolini or Franco, and actively oppose authoritarianism of all shapes and colors. And by the way, my brand of “leftism” (libertarian) has NEVER carried out genocide or started a war.
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The first fascist leader was Benito Mussolini, who was first a communist, then a fascist.
If you read the Nazi Party platform sans the blatant racism many of its objectives, universal health, guaranteed employment are exactly the same as socialism.
The main difference between socialism/communism and fascism is communism is summed up by “workers of the world unite!”; fascism is summarized by “the state unite! the state above all else!”
Goldberg points out the philosophical and historical foundations of fascism and makes great pains to point out that that is all he is doing. He also devotes a whole section to identifying fascism in the liberal and conservative camps of today.
Open your minds, read the book, object on facts or lack thereof.
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“Is this guy for real? Fascism is sort of the antithesis of both progressivism and Communism.”
Sure … if a progressive or a communist is permitted to define the word. Unfortunately for “progressives,” they simply don’t have that much power. Read the book, bud. Ya might actually learn something.
“Look at what happened in Chile. Pinochet, a self-avowed fascist (he openly supported Mussolini) overthrew an elected Socialist to bring free market reforms and subjugate the working class to the elite class.”
… And once he established a functional, working economy and sufficient social controls to perptuate a functional society, he stepped aside. Willingly.
Look, no one’s lionize the man. He did SOME good, but at the price of several thousand lives. Few approve of his methods and I certainly don’t. But isn’t it the communist nutjobs that killed MILLIONS, all in the name of a thoroughly failed “utopia?”
Again, dude: Read the book.
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“And by the way, my brand of “leftism” (libertarian) has NEVER carried out genocide or started a war.”
Newsflash: Libertarianism isn’t necessarily associated with left or right. I’m a right-leaning libertarian, for example.
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Anonymous (April 8, 2008 @ 8:28am) wrote: “he’s never read the 14 characteristics of fascism, has he?”
I have. I think most Western countries (France, for example) have a profile similar to the USA according to those characteristics.
But more fundamentally, why should we accept that those 14 qualities are, in fact, a definitive evaluation of fascism? And why should we accept that the author who compiled those 14 characteristics is authoritative? Haven’t you ever wondered that? Shouldn’t college students examine things and question them?
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Students and members of any university community arguing against their inbred facism remind me of a wonderful interview with a Russian a few years ago where he responded to accusations of facism in Chechnya by saying “We can’t be facists, we’re not German.” Now, that’s a good argument.
Most recently, check which justices voted for an insane interpretation of emminent domain in Kelo v. City of New London. I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the conservatives.
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Those who want to understand where Jonah is coming from ought to read what the jounrals said about Mussolini during the 1920s. “He made the trains run on time,” was the least of the nice things that were said. He was, in fact, lauded in much the same way that Castro was before he came out four square for international communism.
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Bringing up Pinochet in an attempt to discredit Goldberg’s argument is not helpful to that cause. Goldberg’s argument in the book is very specific. He sets the discussion against the backdrop of the American political scene. Right and left in Chile (or elsewhere) don’t really apply because they mean different thing in different countries. Goldberg contrasts the ideas behind American Liberalism with those behind American Conservatism.
Goldberg convincingly argues that modern American Liberals owe an ideological debt to the Fascist Movements of the early 20th century (Wilson, Mussolini, Hitler, and Roosevelt). Many of the reforms championed by those leaders (and the Progressives of that era) are remarkably similar to the ides of today’s Liberals. He points out that modern Liberals have never had to answer for the contemptible ideas of their ideological forbearers
He contrasts the ideas of the Liberals with those of modern American Conservatives (Classical Liberal) whose belief in the principles of the American Constitution and free market capitalism are the very antithesis of Fascism.
Goldberg’s book may be a painful history lesson for the American Left, but it is one that honest Liberals should undertake.
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Let’s unpack the “14 Characteristics of Fascism” just a bit…
Powerful and Continuing Nationalism.
If two ideologies are both totalitarian and share identical economic theories, is it really meaningful to call one “left” and one “right” because one focuses on the “nation” and one on the world? Besides, Stalin constantly appealed to nationalism.
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights. Also known as “individual” rights. This puts all flavors of collectivism in the same category — on the left.
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Marx, Hitler and Progressives were all racist (see Margret Sanger; Van Mise; Woodrow Wilson) All socialists scapegoat “capital”. Again, this criteria unites fascism, socialism and progressivism on the left.
Supremacy of the Military - The Third-Reich and the USSR both did this. The Progressives applied militancy to the government’s role in peacetime. Again, this criteria unites fascism, socialism and progressivism on the left.
Rampant Sexism - “the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.” On the right, the family is the ultimate guardian of the family. There’s a reason we refer to modern leftists as favoring the “Nanny State”. Again, this criteria unites fascism, socialism and progressivism on the left.
Controlled Mass Media. This is a feature of all totalitarian governments, and therefore isn’t a distinction that’s unique to fascism. Woodrow Wilson shut down dozens of anti-government publications and established the CPI - the world’s first propaganda agency. Again, fascists, communists and progressives sharing features, because they’re ALL leftist / statist / totalitarian.
Obsession with National Security - Please. There’s nothing uniquely “fascist” about this.
Religion and Government are Intertwined - Where this isn’t false (the Catholic church objected to Mussolini’s fascism, labeling it “statolatry”, Hitler hated Christianity) it proves the point that these are all leftist urges. Wilson was the Calvinist son of a Presbyterian minister that intertwined religious themes with government. Father Coughlin vociferously supported FDR’s New Deal until he felt it didn’t go far enough. Liberation theology was developed and applied by Marxists in Central America.
Corporate Power is Protected - Mussolini (the original fascist) brought labor, government and business together to run industry. Wilson brought industrialists into the government as part of the War Industries Board. Al Gore is helping General Electric with his eco-doomsaying. Once again, left, left, left.
Labor Power is Suppressed - Where it isn’t true (Mussolini, who called himself a lifelong socialist, brought labor into the governing structure), it proves the opposite point (Woodrow Wilson (Progressive) arrested and deported IWW members and jailed labor leader Eugene Debs.)
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - The Khmer Rouge identified people who wore glasses as “intellectuals” and killed them. Nazis, Stalinists, Islamists — all have jailed “counterrevolutionary” artists and intellectuals.
Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Good grief? Are you kidding? Secret Police? Show trials? No individual rights like the presumption of innocence, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, the right to counsel? Again, this is a feature of totalitarian regimes, and fascists and communists ALL did it. Again — this is a collectivist, statist, i.e. LEFTIST, phenomenon, not a phenomenon of classical liberalism / individualism.
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Right. Leftists are never corrupt.
Fraudulent Elections - Right. All those Stalinist elections were fair.
In short - practically everything on this list of characteristics of “fascism” is actually a characteristic of collectivist-statist totalitarianism, and anathema to a system based on individual rights.
So what we have are the 14 characteristics of LEFTISM.
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Here is an idea.
Let’s use student fees to bring in speakers that will say everything that liberals agree with. Let’s not use our money to bring in speakers that get us riled up or make us question the stuff that makes us so tolerant and cool. That way, we can experience the full scope and breadth of the modern American education.
Celebrate Diversity!
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Excellent dialogue, people.
My friends, family, associates, and acquaintances cover most all of the political stripes and most are decent people.
Where the breakdown occurs, for my discussions with my f/f/a/a, comes when they close their minds and permit nothing that challenges their beliefs.
Same with me.
We should all appreciate the fact that, regardless of the content, all of these postings are permitted without grave consequences and create a venue for a free exchange of ideas and points of views.
I fully subscribe to Goldberg’s thesis but do not expect everyone else to.
Re: John Ray, he posted a great blog about Lincoln being a fascist. His argument is compelling.
Let’s try to keep the possibility of having our minds open to challenges once in a while.
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The problem everyone has is viewing the political spectrum as linear. It is actually cirular, with the farthest rightward point (fascism) nestling right up against the farthest rightward point (communism). The differences are historical, but not meaningful.
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The problem with viewing the politcal spectrum as circular is that the labels of right and left have been so corrupted that they are no longer useful guides as to what those so labeled actually believe.
In American politics Conservatives are supposedly on the right. The circular theory would hold that the more Conservative one becomes the more to the right they move and the closer they edge toward fascism. Just ask any Leftist and they will confirm that for you.
American Conservatives, however, believe in conserving the ideals of Constitution and the traditional social, religious, and economic institutions that have helped to shape this great country. Any move toward American Conservatism is a move away from Fascism.
The only thing circular about this discussion is the logic that says Conservatives bad, Hitler bad, Hitler Fascist, Conservatves Facist. May sound good at the coffee bar, but it is very bad history.
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Libertarian isn’t leftist you moron. You been smoking too much dope.
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This is honestly what the left is turning into. Soon all our “freedoms” and “rights” will be the governments hands…well because they know better.
It’s funny because I think the majority of Americans would say that the way the government has handled programs like social welfare, education, and social security has been less than sub-par. But her why not let them have a crack at national health care. They are bound to get something right one of these days.
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Leftist libertraian? How’s that work? Aside form drug laws, libertrians fit squarely inside the Republican Party. Hint: unreformed former Libertarian Party presidential candidates are running for President as Republicans…