Zain, I am afraid you have missed the point of this entirely over-covered piece of news. As a private business, the owners enacted dress codes explicitly to exclude certain patrons. They readily admit this and are happy to say that it worked. The basis of exclusion was not race, however, but culture. They found that the people expressing their identity through a particular type of clothing were statistically more likely to be involved in violent interactions on their premises. All company’s have the right to choose their own target market, and I agree with you that people have the right to protest a service company’s selection. The very triviality of this baffles me as to why such a hub-bub has occurred. The truth remains, however, that clothing is mutable unlike race, and so a dress code is not racist. The same person, once refused entrance based on the dress code, may change their attire and gain entrance. If protestors really believe the bars' dress codes are racist, shouldn't they also be picketing Abercrombie & Fitch for including a wider diversity of races in their new advertising campaign? By the logic applied to the bar, A&F is telling certain races they should change how they dress just as some argue the bars assumed certain races dress in particular fashions. Having a hat turned a certain way, a particular jersey, sweat pants, a bandana, or a wave cap do not identify a person's race. All of these may be used, and commonly are, to identify gang affiliations. The bars made a business decision to increase the safety of their clientele by reducing the presence of violent customers.

Seriously, Herald, enough discussion has passed on such a ridiculous topic. There must be more consequential issues in the city to cover.

Can’t Madison liberals just get on with life? There are so many other bars in Madison where Zain and his buddies can hang out. Why does it bother him so much that two bars now have dress codes? Get a life, Zain!

Zain, it’s liberals like you who give liberalism a bad name. Stop protesting something that isn’t worth protesting. There are more important issues to devote your attention to besides dress codes at bars. I’m afraid to ask what you do in your spare time. Start a blog if you enjoy so much attention.

Anyone who doesn’t like dress codes should do their drinking at home. You can party naked if you want to.

If anything protest Johnny Os for their blatant disregard for our state’s underage drinking laws. If they carded as well as other establishments in the area, the idiot underage wangstas wouldn’t be in there causing trouble.

A Chicago steakhouse that requires a black tie and jacket isn’t racist, or classist, or any other term you want to categorize it as. It merely wants to create an ambiance, one in which ghetto-bangers, white trash, or white/whiny-emo college kids do not fit. Anyone who wants to get in can wear the proper attire, no questions asked —Why is this so hard to understand? Hey libs, get out of Brookfield for once and turn your brains on. I recommend dropping the trustafarian life-style and using the books your parents pay for each semester for something other than bong support devices.

How can you look yourself in the mirror after writing this article?

Comparing Johnny Os to a Chicago Steakhouse that requires a black tie and jacket is idiotic. Johnny Os doesn’t have a dress code, they have clothing articles that one cannot wear which do not include things that would be “white trash” or “white/whiny emo college kids” who frequently are in there. People need to drop the argument that Johnny Os is trying to hav a dress code that makes people look nice, and just say they’re trying to keep out hip hop culture. To say otherwise is stupid and untrue.

QUIT WHINING CONSERVATIVES!!!! (It’s really annoying when you call everybody who disagrees with you a whining liberal. We’re not all whining, and we’re not all liberals.

People need to drop the argument that Johnny Os is trying to hav a dress code that makes people look nice, and just say they’re trying to keep out hip hop culture. To say otherwise is stupid and untrue.

Excuse me, Mr./Ms. whiny liberal, but isn’t there someplace in town where the hip-hoppers can go and do their damage? In a town with some 500 bars, there has got to be at least one place like that. Maybe two or three. It’s the liberals who are whining. The conservatives are just poking fun at them, which is something liberals got coming.

“People need to drop the argument that Johnny Os is trying to hav a dress code that makes people look nice, and just say they’re trying to keep out hip hop culture.”

Good! Why does every bar in Madison have to admit a bunch of troublemakers? If these ignorant hip-hop shitheads want to cause trouble, let them pool all the money they make from criminal activity and open their own bar. They’ll have their own place where they can kill each other and they won’t have to haggle over dress codes. They also won’t have us “whiny conservatives” to get in their way. And all the whiny liberals can go there and hang out with them too. Sound fair?

i don’t know why i never figured it out, but I guess it makes sense that all the neocons read the online herald, and most normal people read the paper herald….interesting

“i don’t know why i never figured it out, but I guess it makes sense that all the neocons read the online herald, and most normal people read the paper herald….interesting”

Yeah, but what sort of thoughtful, intelligent commentary would they share with us if they did read the online edition? Or would they just type the same ol’ pap that others are posting here?

What do you think you and your friends are typing? New and thoughtful ideas?

“neocons” use the online Herald to post their childish insults because they don’t have the balls to speak their opinion in public, like most “whiny liberals” actually do.

If “neocons” did speak in public, then they would have to face the childish insults of the whiny liberals. Maybe it’s time the whiny liberals faced their own trial by fire instead. Any takers?

“What do you think you and your friends are typing? New and thoughtful ideas?”

After more than fifteen years of a left-wing extremist monopoly on the campus news media, ANYTHING would be considered new and thoughtful. Especially long-overdue criticism of the radical left. It’s about time it happened. I welcome it with eager anticipation.

The problem you have, though, is that a dress code is inherently not racist. For something that requires entrance to be racist, it must not allow people in due to their race. Guess what, last year I tried getting into Brothers with my Cubs jersey on. And you know what? I couldn’t get in. I’m white. If a black guy came in the bar wearing anything BUT the items you are not allowed to wear, he can get in. And I know people who worked at Brothers before the dress code. They literally feared for their physical safety.

It sounds to me like the posters who are against the dress codes are white. I’d be more interested in hearing from African-Americans about this issue instead of a bunch of stupid white Wisconsin farm kids. Anyone?

“I’d be more interested in hearing from African-Americans about this issue instead of a bunch of stupid white Wisconsin farm kids. Anyone?”

I’m African American. I don’t think the dress code is racist. I think the people who are protesting the dress code and calling it racist are idiots. I wish they would act like real liberals and protest something that matters, like the genocide in Sudan and the world’s failure to do anything to protect the black victims of violence there.

I’m black, and I think it’s borderline racist. I think it’s more annoying that people are saying these bars want patrons to look nicei, because if that was true, they’d have a real dress code, like what you’re required to wear. And it wouldn’t be Abercrombie and Fitch. I’d be less offended personally if they just said “yeah, we’re trying to keep these type of people out” just because closet racists are the most irritating kinds of racists.

That’s the problem with this campus, it’s a bunch of closet racists and sheltered white kids with only themselves on their minds. That’s why they don’t care about issues like this, which isn’t really about the dress code itself, but the extremely negative attitude Madison has towards hip-hop and almost correspondantly, black people. It seems the only black people who don’t get that scrutinizing look are the ones who conform to a “white” ideal—whether they chose that path or they grew up that way. I’m not saying people shouldn’t be themselves, I’m saying some African Americans here just fit in with the majority of the white population better than the black population, like our friend above me I presume. So naturally their ideas are aligned in many cases and they don’t catch that heat. For the rest of us: a lot of white kids point at us and say ‘why can’t we be more like those good negroes,’ and they also say shit like ‘I’m not racist, look at my black friend,’ and point to the black guy who thinks exactly the same way they do. He may not even be into hip-hop, so what representation does that make for those of us, black and white, who do. I’m curious if our black friend, who I’m assuming is the same guy who’s been saying this in similar articles, listens to hip-hop regularly, or maybe he only listens when it’s playing from some second or third party. If not, his opinion as a black man holds no more weight to me than a white man who dislikes hip-hop, because their ideals would be very similar, and he naturally wouldn’t correspond being black, like himself, with hip-hop, that he doesn’t care for.

A lot of the UW-Madison white community lived sheltered lives in their communities, whether it was in a small town full of white people, or in a city like Madison where they may have just joined some elitist clique and never spoke to blacks unless spoken to. These are the same kids who complain that the homeless are all lazy, get in the way of their moped parking, and wonder what the homeless are doing for them. These kids don’t care about anybody or anything else except other people just like them, or where the party is at and what girl or guy they’re going to try to sleep with on a given night. Social issues fly right over their heads, and they just make lame excuses for why they refuse to get involved. If you don’t want to get involved, fine. Don’t. But then don’t insult the people who are just because you don’t have enough passion to care about something that might not directly benefit you.

I’m glad not everyone on campus is like this, but unfortunately, it’s a much larger group than it should be, and t hat’s why Madison will continue to be only a pseudo-progressive campus and a pseudo-progressive campus. Madison needs help.

The only thing racist about this whole ordeal is the fact that there is this ongoing assumption that we as African Americans cannot afford to buy a shirt with a collar on it. Or you think we are too stupid to read a dress code sign or too “ghetto” to take our caps off. Look, the policy isn’t a 1960’s “no coloreds allowed” policy. It is put in place to keep worthless punks from ruining the bars that serve them. Wake up folks!

I’d love to see some place start a policy of no A+F or Gap clothes. They could call it the “no dumbass preppies” policy, or the “no wearing clothes from companies that promote pedophilia” policy, or the “no looking like a giant penis” policy.

So start a bar that bans A+F…that’s your right.

I find it highly entertaining when white people post here claiming to be black, whether they think the bars’ dress codes are racist or not. Anonymity is truly a powerful propaganda tool.

I’m living in DC right now, and just try going down to Georgetown and getting into a bar there with “hip-hop” clothes on. Then try going to Adam’s Morgan. You’ll find no success in the former, and a lot of success in the latter. I think the one thing that people don’t understand is that this was not a response at Brother’s that was along the lines of “Oh crap, we’ve got all these black people here, we have to keep them out.” The response was, “This level of violence we are seeing the bar is unacceptable. We have to do something to keep the elements that bring this violence in out.” They experimented with a dress code that did keep out more elements of black culture than white culture. It worked. It is unfortunate what that says about our society in many ways, but it lays no blame on the bar. You honestly think they like having a dress code? I bet they have at least a dozen kids who are going to behave well and pay well who they cannot allow in. But the safety of those who work in the bar is the most important issue. It’s the same thing a lot of you would bring up with “why there should be no smoking in bars”, but knives and guns in bars are a lot more dangerous than cigs.

“Anonymity is truly a powerful propaganda tool.”

So said the anonymous poster. —> NO CREDIBILITY!

While I disagree with neocons on a great deal of social issues, I thoroughly enjoy each opportunity to discuss those issues with them. I hold pity for anyone who would instinctively belittle the points of view of their political opponents. You’re all missing out at a great opportunity to strengthen your own argument. This goes both ways, mind you.

Furthermore, I would like to point out that the label “neocon” is not determined by race but ideology. And I personally know quite a few African Americans who proudly stand behind that ideology.

By the by, how can an anonymous poster call another anonymous poster a coward and do it with a straight face? Try column writing sometime, you wouldn’t believe some of the responses we get from people safely tucked away behind their computers.

Patrick, some of us who support the bar’s right to have a dress code of their choice aren’t neocons or conservatives of any sort. A lot of us are just moderates who don’t cry “racist!” any time a policy at a place as frivolous as two out of the hundred bars in downtown Madison may or may not keep more people of one race out of a bar than another, but not at all due to their race. I support Brother’s and Johnny O’s in this, but also support affirmative action, a woman’s right to choose, and gay marriage. I like to be called “reasonable” instead of being pigeon holed by saying, “The liberals do this, it must be right” or, “The conservatives do that, it must be right.”

No poster, I totally agree with you. I see no problem with the dress code.

My last post was a bit of a diversion off the main topic. I just have a distaste for people who deem an opposing point of view as idiotic or worthless.

I forgot to log in on the last post.

What was proven to be racist anyway?

As I understand it, the reason for the dress codes was due to fights that started over team rivalry, not gangs. That’s why I’m confused as to why the protestors would take that as discrimination against African-Americans. I’m a liberal myself-and yes, I’m white-but I can’t see where allegations of racism in this case are even justified.

the better question is why would you want to go to brothers anyway? that place blows

“I’m a liberal myself-and yes, I’m white-but I can’t see where allegations of racism in this case are even justified.”

It’s just a simple demonstration of how how desperate liberals are now that they are beginning to lose their status.

If the Democratic Party is losing status, symbolic battles like these are part of the reason.

IF? the democratic party is all but dead

Looks like some liberals are stuck here in town for the holidays. I guess their parents don’t want them to come home again. Hee-hee!

If you were tammy baldwin’s parent would you want her home?

“If you were tammy baldwin’s parent would you want her home?”

Nope.

“If you were tammy baldwin’s parent would you want her home?”

I don’t know. I’ve never met her, so I don’t really know what she’s like. Of course, I never met you either, but with your attitude, I definitely would want you to stay as far away from me as possible.

She is a bug-eyed lesbo extremist

No worries for you, I have no problem staying away from skanky liberals…they are smelly.

What the hell has Tammy Baldwin done for her district, besides pursuing the agenda of her supporters?

“What the hell has Tammy Baldwin done for her district, besides pursuing the agenda of her supporters?”

News flash, genius: a US Representative is supposed to pursue the agenda of his or her district. Since the majority of people in Baldwin’s district are her supporters — they did elect her, after all — she’s supposed to pursue their agenda!

She also won her initial election against a good man who who was a bad candidate. It’s not like there was some big “let’s send a queer to congress” revolt in madison.

But now the dyke is an incumbent, and the incumbency advantage is well known.

ugly tammy = mediocre

Scott Klug should run again just to get that ugly queer out of Congress.

Another conversation ruined by trolling.

We welcome your thoughts, but please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted.

“Scott Klug should run again just to get that ugly queer out of Congress.”

If we’re going to throw around hateful and pointless insults like “ugly queer,” we should probably come up with something that can’t also be used to describe your girlfriend.

just like a liberal …

“just like a liberal …”

… to make a sensible argument in the face of brainwashed conservative talking heads.

“… to make a sensible argument in the face of brainwashed conservative talking heads.”

Or maybe just another liberal who’s head is screwed on tight telling a reckless, clueless liberal to get his/her act together.

“Or maybe just another liberal who’s head is screwed on tight telling a reckless, clueless liberal to get his/her act together.”

Possible. Unlikely, but possible. You’re too dumb to be a liberal.

Republicans don’t complain about frivolous lawsuits. They FILE frivolous lawsuits.

The lawsuits they complain about are mostly from people with legitimate complaints against people or corporations that are significantly more powerful than they are (and who, not coincidentally, donate large sums of money to Republican campaigns).

In the spirit of Christmas Eve, I offer the following verses, courtesy of Weird Al:

Down in the workshop all the elves were making toys For the good Gentile girls and the good Gentile boys, When the boss busted in, nearly scared ‘em half to death, Had a rifle in his hand and cheap whisky on his breath. From his beard to his boots, he was covered with ammo, Like a big, fat, drunk, disgruntled Yuletide Rambo. And he smiled as he said, with a twinkle in his eye, “Merry Christmas to all! Now you’re all gonna die!”

The night Santa went crazy, The night Saint Nick went insane, Realized he’d been getting a raw deal, Something finally must have snapped in his brain.

Well, the workshop is gone now. He decided to bomb it. Everywhere you’ll find pieces of Cupid and Comet. And he tied up his helpers, and he held the elves hostage, And he ground up poor Rudolph into reindeer sausage. He got Dasher and Dancer with an old German Luger, And he slashed up Prancer just like Freddy Krueger. And he picked up a flamethrower and he barbecued Blitzen, And he took a big bite and said, “It tastes just like chicken!”

The night Santa went crazy, The night Kris Kringle went nuts, Now you can’t hardly walk around the North Pole, Without stepping in reindeer guts.

There’s the National Guard and the FBI. There’s the van from the eyewitness news, And helicopters circlin’ ‘round in the sky. And the bullets are flyin’, the body count’s risin’, and everyone’s dyin’ to know, “Oh, Santa, why?” My, my, my, my, my, my. You used to be such a jolly guy…

Yes, Virginia, now Santa’s doing time, In a federal prison for his infamous crime. Hey, little friend, now, don’t you cry no more tears! He’ll be out with good behavior in 700 more years. But now Vixen’s in therapy, And Donner’s still nervous, And the elves all got jobs working for the Postal Service, And they say Mrs. Claus, she’s on the phone every night, With a lawyer negotiating the movie rights. They’re talkin’ ‘bout…

The night Santa went crazy, The night Saint Nicholas flipped, Broke his back for some milk and cookies, Sounds to me like he was tired of gettin’ gypped. Whoa… The night Santa went crazy, The night Saint Nick went insane, Realized he’d been gettin’ a raw deal, Something finally must’ve snapped in his brain. Tell ya, something finally must’ve snapped in his brain. Tell ya, something finally must have snapped… In his brain.

Ah, nice to see some students are back from the holidays already! Kinda wore out your parents’ welcome a little too quick, eh?

“Ah, nice to see some students are back from the holidays already! Kinda wore out your parents’ welcome a little too quick, eh?”

I don’t have parents.

“I don’t have parents.”

Oh my God! They’ve perfected human cloning!

“Oh my God! They’ve perfected human cloning!”

Well, the technology was first developed here at UW, but Republicans oppose it, so I doubt that’s what was meant. I think you’re just a heartless bastard making fun of a poor orphan.

“I think you’re just a heartless bastard making fun of a poor orphan.”

You liberals are getting more and more childish every day!

“You liberals are getting more and more childish every day!”

If that isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is!

Would you all please stop being idiots.

“If that isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is!”

If THAT isn’t childish, I don’t know what is.

“If THAT isn’t childish, I don’t know what is.”

If that isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is!

Well, they are idiots, aren’t they?

“Well, they are idiots, aren’t they?”

If that isn’t a case of the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is!

It’s an interesting pattern they’ve developed here, yes?

Well, they’re college students, aren’t they?

Newsflash- this is a college newspaper. College students read it. College students post comments. If it bothers you that much, go read the Capital Times

“If it bothers you that much, go read the Capital Times”

Have you read the Capital Times lately? It’s even worse!

I read The Onion instead. Much more entertaining, if not factual.

The Onion’s not factual? You lie!

You probably also think Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy aren’t real either, don’t you?

Idiot…

“You probably also think Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy aren’t real either, don’t you?”

Yes I do. I also think that there’s a great white shark hiding under my bed, waiting for me to turn off the lights so it can eat me.

Who’s the idiot now, huh? HUH?! Not me, bucko!

Whatever you say, skidmark.

Oh yeah? Well, if I’m a skidmark then you are the dead skunk after the skidmark. Ha ha ha! Gotcha with that one! Whatch gonna do now, huh? Huh?!

Jesus Christ, there will be another issue in two days with more topics to bitch about. This has been sad for well over a week.

Whatever you say, Jesus Christ.