Remind me why we have an ROTC on this campus? As much as I loath the athletic department for their low academic standards, no one dies in basketball or football on a regular basis, as an expectation of their participation in the activity. I would gladly pay more tuition to spare my fellow UW brothers and sisters the temptation to make such a sacrifice for nothing more than nationalism and lies.

Well Sam, completely ignoring Iraq. What exactly do you think our response to Sept. 11 should have been? Remember that it is our military that is still in Afghanistan and is still searching for those responsible for a direct attack on our country.

Based on your comments, I suspect you’ve met a couple of drunks that decided they wanted to blow stuff up so they would join the military. Fortunately, most of the people I know that have joined are much more responsible, intelligent and humane than that. One friend ran equipment that searched for chemical weapons in use to protect the other soldiers. Another joined to help pay for college, etc.

Also, unlike what you have access to through the media, I’ve gotten to see stories from soldiers that have come home (I used to work for a media company and we got to talk to people about stories that never run). One school vice-principle returned and showed pictures of a student that they literally scrounged up parts to make a wheel chair for. Pictures that showed them covering murals that taught the children to hate, and in some cases kill Americans. Pictures showing them working with schools to help get them books, better facilities, etc.

These are the people that make up the US Military. And you better show them every ounce of respect they have earned and deserve. They’re the ones that ensure you are able to write the comments you made above…

I disagree. There is a need for a large, standing volunteer military; however, as you point out, the military has been misused and abused for much of the past 50 years. It seems that jumping from an essentially isolationist country pre-WWII to a world super power almost overnight did not allow us the time to develop a strategy to maintain peace. We did learn to intimidate and constantly be on the “brink” of war with any entity who didn’t see things our way. Also, most unfortunately, we befriended enemies of our enemies and created new enemies along the way.

If we truly are a super-power, we need not be held hostage by enemies of our enemies. IF we truly are a super-power, we should be able to fight and win wars unilaterally… Iraq and Afghanistan have proven us wrong, much like the Patriots proved mother England wrong over 200 years ago.

Though well written, your article makes me want to punch you in the face. Comparing me to Nazis in the cloak of “German military” doesn’t make you a better person for spitting on the legacy of your forefathers. Should we have waited until Japan retreated from Pearl Harbor and came back instead of pursuing them? In your view, yes: we only have a right to defend out own shores. In some ways I wish we would do what you suggest so people like you would see what would happen to the world…

1,000 miles away? Like in New York?

Sam you are an utter dolt. Your lack of respect and understanding is appalling. If the debate is between guns and butter, I’d rather take the guns if it means our enemies will come and take our butter.

Isolationism. Should we use our military to prevent genocide? Should we get militarily involved in Sudan? How about Bosnia, Sam? Was that a mistake?

Your moral equivalence is breathtakingly stupid. You really need someone to point out the difference between 9/11 and a strike on a military target? You must have been mistakingly admitted to UW.

Let me know how your peace summit with the Taliban goes. Lord knows we’ve mistakenly been using guns against that group. I know they’ll listen to you. They’ve been saying the same thing you said in your article for years.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. � George Orwell

Sam Clegg writes ‘on behalf of the world’? Sam thinks Winston Churchill was phenominally arrogant? What a childishly arrogant marxist tard!

The US learned through 2 world wars that we could not sit back in isolationist nirvana and ignore the fighting and fussing of the rest of the world. Twice the regional conquest by tin pot dictators escalated into globe encircling conflagarations. Twice we were forced to intercede, at great loss of American men and capital resources, to defeat in bloody combat the facists and marxists that sought to eradicate freedom from the planet. Twice we learded the lesson that isolationism is sheer folly. Twice we learded the lesson that we must confront the wannabe tyrants like Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mousolini, Hirohito, Kim Jung Il, Hugo Chavez, Alexander Putin, Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbolah, Mahmoud Amedinejad, Osama Bin Laden, and Moammar Quaddhafi before they can implement their pursuit of world dominance. Twice we learned the lesson to never again heed the fraught with peril rantings from the misguided Sam Kleggs down through history.

As the European nations and many others have discovered, the USA is not an Imperialist nation. When the fighting is done and the latest wannabe regional or world tyrant destroyed, the USA asked for only enough land to bury our honored dead before returning to hearth and home.

The fundamental lesson the USA learned is that we must intercede and quell the regional conflicts BEFORE they become world wide catastropies. The USA can be destroyed, only if we are stupid enough to wait until all other freedom loving nations have been subjugated by the Marxist megalomaniac or Islamic theocracy du jour.

Sam, though your prose is at times elegant, your fundamental philosphies are misguided at best, emphatically wrong with historical certainty, and as dangerous as the empty platitudes offered by Neville ‘Peace In Our Time’ Chamberlain in September 1938, after his delusional Munich Agreement for peace with Hitler.

Yes, Sam. You are the modern day Neville Chamberlain.

Invictus Maneo

Nice, the Herald lets any uber-liberal with a computer write opinons on things they’ll never understand such as sacrifice and service for a cause greater than ones self.

Nicely done.

I know I spent six years of my life overseas (without a gun) to protect your right to write this article, but your words make me feel like all my sacrifices and time spent were wasted.

We have an ROTC on campus because there are students who are willing to do the work to safeguard their community, state and country.

Why do we have an argumentative student socialist organization on campus that can spout the drivel in this article? Again, BECAUSE we have men and women willing to protect that right for them! :)

GENIUS COLUMN! Clegg ha gone….. and totally redeemed himself.

However, whats wrong with wanting to kill some Iraqi’s. Its kill or be killed dude. So we are killing.

Wow Sam, since I know you are a neoliberal libertarian it must hurt being called a marxist. Welcome to Kyle’s world.

Wow Sam, since I know you are a neoliberal libertarian it must hurt being called a marxist. Welcome to Kyle’s world.

8:59, apparently you DO live under a rock.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j2MiRFoQVCnALPXyJD-yDFN5Tmvw

The United State is considering talks with the Taliban. Although, if Bush does it, you’ll blindly defend it. I know, you’re predictable.

9:32, you wrote:

“Twice we learded [sic] the lesson that we must confront the wannabe [sic] tyrants like Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mousolini [sic], Hirohito, Kim Jung Il, Hugo Chavez, Alexander Putin [sic], Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, Hamas, Hezbolah [sic], Mahmoud Amedinejad [sic], Osama Bin Laden, and Moammar Quaddhafi [sic] before they can implement their pursuit of world dominance.”

You begin with a list of tyrants we confronted militarily in WWII, which Sam correctly calls “the most threatened period” in our nation’s history. The historian Howard Zinn will not comment on whether WWII was a just war, except to say that since WWII is OVER, we cannot use it to justify military force in this day and age, especially since the international system was (ostensibly) created after WWII to prevent that level of chaos — chaos which indeed involved war crimes on all sides. Watch “The Fog of War” and listen to Robert McNamara assert that if the U.S. had lost WWII, we would have been tried in Japanese courts for war crimes equivalent to arbitrarily destroying half of every major city in the United States. Militarism always results in grave travesties, and in my opinion, can only be an incidental force for liberation some of the time. WWII may have been the “moment” for militarism, if such a thing exists, but we should be glad the “moment” is over.

Then, of course, as every neoconservative with nowhere to go does, you launch into a long list of “bad guys” in the world today (incidentally, the manic energy of your presentation here is breathtaking.) The Prime Minister of Russia is Vladimir Putin, not Alexander Putin, and he is probably on this list simply by virtue of being one of many nefarious characters whose names you can recite from rote, or who are regularly criticized on the talk radio shows you listen to. At any rate, you accuse all of these groups of desiring “world dominance.” What evidence do you have that every group on this list has imperial aims, or the ability to achieve them? Why do you insist on fitting every international figure you don’t like into a WWII-era model? a) Hamas and Hezbollah, for their part, are violent and condemnable but essential forces in their respective regions for strengthening Arab society and providing basic resources against the cynical neglect of Israeli and Lebanese society. b) If the President of Iran wants to dominate the world, he only has several months — inflation is 30 percent in Iran, the Iranians (the most pro-American people in the Middle East) distrust and hate his rhetoric, and he will be swiftly voted out of power very soon. (Aren’t you glad we didn’t invade?) c) Hugo Chavez is losing support in Venezuela as oil profits plummet (their anachronistic slogan for a while was “Oil is our Future”), but Chavez’s support was always rooted in patriotic opposition to the United States’ brutal history of suppressing peaceful socialist uprisings in Latin America. d) Osama bin Laden, if not the Taliban which hosted him, clearly wants to conquer the world. But so does the schizophrenic man who mumbles down my street every night at 2 AM; bottom line — if the United States did not treat the Middle East with the militaristic tones you advocate, his coffers would dry up quickly and his message would seem erroneous and laughable.

You may have missed it (read: almost certainly missed it), but the United States has been steadily increasing its military foreign aid to Lebanon in an effort to strengthen the Lebanese army against Hezbollah. Israeli civil society is largely horrified that we are in essence flooding the region with military arms and technology that could easily slip into more reckless hands. Ponder this for a moment. We have dug our heel so deep into the region that even Israel wants us to calm down and wise up.

This is what contemporary militarism represents: the notion that a sloppy and stupid presence which ignores regional complexities and divides the world into “good” and “evil” is better than no presence at all. Especially troubling is the way that advocates of militarism, like yourself, seem to PREFER this sloppiness. You could at least offer suggestions for strengthening military legitimacy, etc. Instead you want to make lists of bad guys and refer us back to WWII. Sam Clegg’s column today (which incidentally echoes the sentiments of many WWII-era veterans that the current U.S. military has missed the point on purpose) ranks among the bravest statements of student journalism at UW since the Vietnam era.

Did Kyle Szarsynski write this piece and the Herald just attributed it wrong? I expect this idiotic shit from him, but I usually enjoy Clegg’s articles.

Sam, you are certainly not going to win over anybody that doesn’t already agree with you with your arguments here.

I feel most bothered by this article because I feel like you misrepresent some ideas that I agree with. One can make a far better argument against current US imperialism than you have made without resorting to questioning the morality of the average US soldier. There are many more VALID reasons why imperialism is unsuccessful, unwise, and morally reprehensible.

If you’d like a better editorial presentation of this issue, I’d be more than willing to oblige.

…so unlike the Teddy Roosevelt policy of walking carefully and having a big stick, you recommend we walk carefully with a feather?

Sam, you are certainly not going to win over anybody that doesn’t already agree with you with your arguments here.

I feel most bothered by this article because I feel like you misrepresent some ideas that I agree with. One can make a far better argument against current US imperialism than you have made without resorting to questioning the morality of the average US soldier. There are many more VALID reasons why imperialism is unsuccessful, unwise, and morally reprehensible.

If you’d like a better editorial presentation of this issue, I’d be more than willing to oblige.

To the rest of you: not all non-interventionists are silly elitists! Concerns about the unwise and counterproductive nature of US imperialism should be talked about, not in the context of hating the military, but in the context of doing what is best for our country’s economy, liberty, and safety!

Free trade, a humble foreign policy, and strong national defense on our own soil are the best policies to protect ourselves!

I think Churchill would be embarrassed to be mentioned in this article and would think the author is a fool.

First off, you are an idiot. You are pretty much implying here that all soldiers are blood hungry people who want nothing more than to kill innocent people. Where do you get this information? Last time I checked, men and women in the military are upstanding citizens who i don’t know how many times i have seen them help people out just around campus. You would probably sit there while an old man was trying to sit down and ignore him, while everytime i have run into this situation i have given up my seat. You are the uncivilized fool that sits around on your shapeless lazy ass picking your nose and flinging your snot at everyone else because they are all so “mean” and “inconsiderate”…

BTW i facestalked you…your profile makes me want to vomit. Im so sorry that you hated your highschool life , living in those evil suburbs and being so fortunate. WHy don’t you go to one of the “more civilized countries” that you speak of and live there. Yes they are way more civilized than us, they behead people in streets, no one but rich men have the right to vote, you get caught stealing?? say goodbye to your hand…you get caught writing an opinion like this?? you won’t see the daylight from 6 feet under buddy…

Our forefathers have served our country so you can write this bullshit. I have friends and relatives who serve this country now so you can write this bullshit. You go live in a different country and see how long you last there.

Please never write this garbage again you arrogant loser.

“Remind me why we have an ROTC on this campus?”

The state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. - Thucydides

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.

� Winston Churchill, speech in the House of Commons, May 13, 1940

I was ready to throw my own bit of malice your way for the arrogant blatherings you obviously think are so intelegent, but after reading so many well stated comments pointing out your inept ability to understand the world you live in, I have decided to, instead, simply laugh at you.

Ha Ha!

Sam,

This article is really misguided and, Im sorry to say, quote offensive and bigoted. Why are you conflating the morality of imperialism with the morality of those who sign up for our military? Come on here, Poli Sci 101, the military is not a civilian institution; we have regulations set up that separate the planning of our foreign operations and the execution of them.

People sign up for the military for a number of reasons however the most prevalent is to live up to the ideal that we all must sacrifice for the freedoms and happiness we enjoy in this country. After enlisting they are told where to go by commanders, they have no say in how they will demonstrate their devotion. How does this make them immoral? How does this make “joining the military patently wrong?”

Im sorry but in fact its getting me a little heated; a skinny little over-privelged white college kid who has probably NEVER had to sacrifice anything is judging the morality of people far morally superior than himself. How can you stand on your soap box and castigate something that you do not understand?

I agree that their are inherent evils of current American imperialism but to direct that anger to the one group of people who have NO CONTROL OVER IT IS REDICULOUS. They are the only neutral people here! Blame the president, blame the civilian leaders of the military, blame the entire government, blame the electorate who put these people into office (us!), but how can you rationally blame the people who are the only ones who are truly sacrificing from the fuck-ups that we as a people have made! Im sorry Im getting more upset here but F-You Sam.

This is what happens when someone who doesn’t understand the world collides with a dictionary, a computer, and a false sense of morality.

Sam,you are truly ignorant. To compare the U.S. military to the actions of the German military in WWII is disrespectful and wrong. Let me educate you, the large majority of the killings in the Concentration Camps were carried out by the Order of the Police. These Police Battalions were made up of 65% citizens, who were not affiliated with the Nazi party. The German military was the ones who were fighting the actual war. Sam your an idiot

Maybe you should add police officers to your list of people to hate since they are accountable for the deaths of criminals and sometimes (unfortunately) innocents? So, lets boycott the police, too, and see where that gets us.

You talk about war like you actually know whats going on. Abortion kills more babies in a day than I did my entire time in Iraq and you naive liberals make me want to puke. You can continue to live in those ivory towers because those of us who live in the real world are willing to sacrifice blood, tears, sweat, time with loved ones, and even our lives so that you can write and say ignorant crap like this.

Come on over and I’ll take the money out of the bank that I earned defending this country and buy you a plane ticket to a “more civilized” nation that sees no difference between the US defending human rights and terroristic acts, like Somalia or Darfur. I’d rather spend the money than have idiots like you ruin the nation that I love.

And, the last time that I checked, it’s considered imperialism if you turn a nation into a colony. If we’re doing that to Iraq, then where’s the little oil derrick that I earned while I was there?

—Iraq War Combat Veteran, voluntarily deployed NOV 06-JUL 07 (1st BCT, 34th INF Div, MN Army Guard) and volunteering with WI Army Guard in February.

PS, check out the dates. For all you doubters, I was there for the troop surge, and I can guarantee you that it worked.

nice article

Sam,

Go back to Canada.

Love,

Marc

I can’t believe how utterly ignorant this column is. If it wasn’t for those bloodthirsty killers you talk about, you’d never be able to write this column. This honestly has to be the single worst column I have ever read in any publication.

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” —John Stuart Mill

You are one of those “miserable creatures.” you sit there and sling mud at the people who are defending your right to write this crap…comfortably sitting under the very blanket of freedom which they provide. The world would be a much darker place if it wasn’t for the brave men and women of the United States Military. You wouldn’t make it a day in the military because you have no sense of honor or commitment.

“Free trade, a humble foreign policy, and strong national defense on our own soil are the best policies to protect ourselves!”

Free trade? Really? If you actually support free trade, you’re a giant jerk.

I find the tone of some responses fairly hypocritical. Consider:

“Our forefathers have served our country so you can write this bullshit. I have friends and relatives who serve this country now so you can write this bullshit. You go live in a different country and see how long you last there.”

The argument here goes as follows: 1) Military servicepeople have fought and died to protect our freedom of speech. 2) Sam Clegg is criticizing military servicepeople (actually I doubt this, but let’s assume he is for the moment). 3) Because military servicepeople have fought and died for Sam Clegg’s freedom to criticize them, Sam Clegg has no right to criticize them.

Somewhere between points 2 and 3, the argument goes in the wrong direction. I think Sam Clegg knows that at certain points in our history, people have bled and died for his write to publish. Don’t patronize him. His argument is clearly that protection of our freedoms and homeland should be the only job of the American military. Those who criticize this argument maintain the delusion that U.S. militarism post-WWII bears more than nominal relation to the traditional prerogatives of the military. I have extreme doubts that any American freedoms have been literally protected by the American military in the years from 1945 until 2008. And I challenge any antagonists posting on this blog to cite one example otherwise.

As a member of the US Armed Forces, I am truly offended. And no, I’m not a medic.

Freedom to Life? You haven’t been killed by terrorists yet…

Freedom of Liberty? I doubt you’ve been forced to do anything like pray to a God you don’t believe in yet….

Freedom for the Pursuit of Happiness? I don’t think you’d be a happy camper if you were conscripted into an army and sent out on a patrol in Afghanistan or Iraq….

…and I think I recall reading about federal troops being used to enforce Civil Rights laws in Alabama in 1963 in a showdown between Kennedy and Wallace…

Well then I guess you’d better stop paying your taxes because you’re funding the military. Of course, then you’ll go to prison for tax evasion and the rest of us will end up paying for your room and board, but that’s no surprise — people who are dumb enough to think as you do often end up costing the taxpayers a lot of money. Just look at John McCain.

I will venture to say this is one of the most ridiculous things I have read. I almost don�t know where to begin. First your limited knowledge of the military comes through clearly enough.

�And indeed, the United States military is fortunate to contain a great many individuals who hold idealism in higher esteem than violence.� You mention medical personnel, good for you. When I was in the Air Force our spec ops helicopters flew aid to devastated areas after the 2004 tsunami, inaccessible to other means of support. I suppose however those pilots, crew chiefs, assorted personnel required to move all the supplies and aircraft, clearly just wanting to inflict violence. I won�t get into the other branches of service because I don�t know about their operations during that time. I have read that our combined efforts saved tens of thousands of lives. You are right though we were out there being violent and spreading imperialism.

�The vast majority of the civilized world sees no difference between ramming a plane into one building and firing a cruise missile or a machine gun at another, even if one is sanctioned by the world�s most powerful government.� If this is true then perhaps we should give up on the world or humanity. If you can not tell the difference between the intentional mass murder of civilians and soldiers struggling to return a country to its rightful owners out of the hands of foreign terrorists, or men who saw an opportunity to impress their own brand of tyranny after the current tyrant was thrown out(Muqtada al-Sadr). The difference is that there is an enemy that hides amongst civilians(no doubt so that when a civilian like yourself sees that a civilian was killed you blame the shooter, not the person who threw that bystander in the way for their own preservation) and professional men and women at arms who�s respect for innocent life often puts them in great danger. I wonder if perhaps the 800,000 Rwandans killed during the 1994 Genocide would have cared for some outside military intervention.

I could go on and on about how rediculous this article is, I won�t. I think you�re a college sophomore who knows little about the world he comments on and really just loves the attention an op/ed page can give him.

Cullen Olejniczak, veteran USAF

The troop surge worked for what? What did we gain in the process of losing wealth and lives? Did Hussein get more dead during the surge?

“The troop surge worked for what? What did we gain in the process of losing wealth and lives? Did Hussein get more dead during the surge?”

The troop surge worked in the fact that in the first four months of it, attacks on coalition forces and Iraqis plummetted and I was no longer getting shot at/blown up on every mission I went out of the wire. It went from every mission having a significant action to about one quarter of them, and it is still plummetting to this day. Not that any of you would listen to fact and instead listen to a lying and liberal media. And you call conservatives “sheeple?”

“His argument is clearly that protection of our freedoms and homeland should be the only job of the American military.”

Then he best not be on the street corner, crying to me about Save Darfur, Free Tibet, money for UNICEF, protect Japanese whales, save tsunami victims, or some other stupid causes you people have, because the US military has been protecting not only our freedoms, but the human rights of those abroad. And we’ve been doing this not because it’s easy, but because it’s the right thing to do.

“I have extreme doubts that any American freedoms have been literally protected by the American military in the years from 1945 until 2008.”

That’s because we haven’t needed to do so, but instead the military has been doing charitable work by protecting others. Liberals want to solve problems around the world, but you think you can do it by throwing our people’s tax dollars at it. Some problems can’t be solved by treating the world like a giant kindergarten class and sharing our money. Sometimes, you have to go and kick the snot out of the playground bully.

—Bryan Brunken, Iraq War Combat Veteran

This is reprehensible.

Don’t “spare me” from joining the ROTC program. I am gladly joining so I can defend people like YOU regardless of your ignorance. I am proud to be a part of something as professional and SELFLESS as the military. Service men and women may not always agree with the decisions and politics of our leaders but the bottom line is we have pride in our country, loyalty to the principles it was founded on and a desire to serve and defend…even those of us who don’t support us.

Sam you’re a young idiot. unfortunately you’re living in the United States where you have the time and freedom to come up with these thoughts rather than worrying about real life issues. I wish you lived under some tyranny to experience the need for the help of others who have the ability. by the way, Iraq is 6000 miles away, not 1000 miles.

Sam you’re young, foolish, and have no experience in the real world. unfortunately you’re living in the United States where you have the time and freedom to come up with these thoughts rather than worrying about real life issues. I wish you lived under some tyranny to experience the need for the help of others who have the ability. consider the U.S. spends more money in foreign aid than any other country in the world, they spend more money on foreign aid than on domestic aid! by the way, Iraq is 6000 miles away, not 1000 miles.

Again, I still haven’t heard one example since WWII of the U.S. military literally protecting my freedoms. 5:35 cited the facts a) that I haven’t been killed by a terrorist, b) that I enjoy my freedom from religion, and c) that I haven’t been conscripted, and d) that American troops were sent down South during the Civil Rights era to enforce desegregation.

Take the last example first. Comparing a) the domestic deployment of the military to enforce a Supreme Court ruling, and b) international military action since WWII is patently absurd. It is obvious I was asking for cases where U.S. conducted wars or interventions have had a proveable, demonstrable effect on the exercise of my liberties. Letters (a), (b), and (c) simply involve the restating of what my liberties are. I have no idea why I haven’t been killed by terrorists since 2001 (nor do I have any idea why I haven’t been electrocuted accidentally). The logic here is again absurd:

1) The United States invaded Iraq and Afghanistan after September 11, 2001 ostensibly to protect the American people from terrorists. 2) There has not been a terrorist attack since 9/11. 3) Therefore, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were justified.

Please.

I’m not going to dignify your article with any sort of rebuttal. I’m just going to say that you are quite wrong, and I am quite offended by your brash generalization of military members.

Dan Goeser

After reading this article, I initially intended to write you a very long and thoughtful comment on why you are an ignorant fool who clearly has no idea what the true purpose of the military is. However, I realized that anyone with such skewed ideas and terroristic perceptions probably wouldn’t understand anyways… so I’ll sum it up in a few words; The veterans of our military services have put their lives on the line for a greater cause than their own selfish gain. It’s thanks to them that you even have the freedom of writing this ridiculously stupid column and that you can peacefully sleep at night.

Sam Clegg’s Facebook About Me:

“Canadian, Badger, loves writing, I hate my life. Hinsdale is a pit of suburban oppression from which the only escape is weeping bitter tears over my brutal treatment at the hands of my parents, who incidentally have provided me with every convenience available in the Information Age. I would rather live anywhere than Hinsdale and Clarendon Hills, including Henry Horner Homes, where I am firmly convinced people share my discontent with the direction our fascist American society is taking. Sometimes I contemplate escaping to New York, where everybody is better educated, more open-minded, more bohemian, and genetically superior to the Dark Ages chauvinistic Dinosaurs of the Midwest. I think I would rent an artists’ studio in Soho with my dad’s money, and discuss the ways in which, despite the fact that I paid thousands of dollars to look poor, I am actually a bona fide member of the American Proletariat, even though I am the epitome of everything its members despise, and how Christianity is really an umbrella concept for pedophiles who are into role-playing.”

That says it all folks. There is no need to wonder why/how such drivel made it into the paper.

Remember back when the Badger Herald was founded? It was meant to provide a balance to the leftist Daily Cardinal. Apparently that’s no longer the case.

You should be fired!

To think that medical personnel are the only people in the military who deserve any sort of respect for their job is unbelievably ignorant. First of all, even medics carry weapons so why single them out? And second, what about the soldiers who are building schools, hospitals, and water treatment plants for Iraqi citizens? Or what about the soldiers who bring gas to the Iraqi locals when insurgents shut down their gas stations? It’s not just the medical personnel who give humanitarian aid overseas.

The only thing this article made me do is search Sam Clegg on Facebook and stalk the shit out of him.

Sam,

Smarter men than you once decided that our country would be best served by having the military subordinate to elected civilian leaders. Insulting the military because you do not agree with who/what/when/where they fight is like insulting a dog because of its leash. Be glad that we have volunteers willing to serve, because if they didn’t, you would, and that wouldn’t be pretty. Great Shock & Awe journalism, though!

Cheers, Dan

P.S. I’m sorry you hate your life.

As an infantry officer in the Wisconsin National Guard, preparing to deploy to Iraq in the largest deployment of Wisconsin soldiers since WWII, an alumnus of the UW Political Science Department and the Badger Battalion of ROTC, and a current graduate student at Norwich University in Diplomacy, I take issue with Mr. Clegg on several counts.

First, “centuries of mismanagement and unwarranted violence” is a clear overstatement. The Declaration of Independence was only signed 232 years ago, and for much of that history the U.S. had no, or a very limited standing army.

Second, the U.S. military today is a professional all volunteer force, each member of which swears a solemn oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If violence is unwarranted, it is up to the civilian leadership to determine that. The military takes its direction from them.

Third, the U.S. soldier is doing his best in circumstances that the idle economics student cannot comprehend to balance his or her own survival with the interests of humanity. We are talking about an enemy that sends pregnant women to be suicide bombers, uses small children as scouts, beheads innocent reporters, and blows up ancient religious artifacts that declared international treasures.

Finally, I disagreed with the Iraq War, and disagree with some of the way we have prosecuted the war in Afghanistan. But I choose to serve my country, because I believe that despite our problems we must as individuals sacrifice for the common good. I choose to participate in the democratic process, and have given money, and will be giving my time and my vote to Obama next week. If Mr. Clegg is a true conscientious objector, he should enlist as a medic, whom he rightfully lauds, rather than criticizing from his armchair. He should engage in the democratic process and help elect politicians who will not use our military poorly. But to attack people who put their lives on the line to protect him and his freedoms is ridiculous.

I close with a quote from George Orwell, which I read in High School, and have since seen on many a barracks wall: “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” Sleep well Mr. Clegg.

As an infantry officer in the Wisconsin National Guard, preparing to deploy to Iraq in the largest deployment of Wisconsin soldiers since WWII, an alumnus of the UW Political Science Department and the Badger Battalion of ROTC, and a current graduate student at Norwich University in Diplomacy, I take issue with Mr. Clegg on several counts.

First, “centuries of mismanagement and unwarranted violence” is a clear overstatement. The Declaration of Independence was only signed 232 years ago, and for much of that history the U.S. had no, or a very limited standing army.

Second, the U.S. military today is a professional all volunteer force, each member of which swears a solemn oath to defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. If violence is unwarranted, it is up to the civilian leadership to determine that. The military takes its direction from them.

Third, the U.S. soldier is doing his best in circumstances that the idle economics student cannot comprehend to balance his or her own survival with the interests of humanity. We are talking about an enemy that sends pregnant women to be suicide bombers, uses small children as scouts, beheads innocent reporters, and blows up ancient religious artifacts that declared international treasures.

Finally, I disagreed with the Iraq War, and disagree with some of the way we have prosecuted the war in Afghanistan. But I choose to serve my country, because I believe that despite our problems we must as individuals sacrifice for the common good. I choose to participate in the democratic process, and have given money, and will be giving my time and my vote to Obama next week. If Mr. Clegg is a true conscientious objector, he should enlist as a medic, whom he rightfully lauds, rather than criticizing from his armchair. He should engage in the democratic process and help elect politicians who will not use our military poorly. But to attack people who put their lives on the line to protect him and his freedoms is ridiculous.

I close with a quote from George Orwell, which I read in High School, and have since seen on many a barracks wall: “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” Sleep well Mr. Clegg.

7:18pm

If you don’t know why you haven’t been killed by a terrorist yet… then you have no idea what happens beyond your tiny college apartment. Your existence is sad, and I’m pretty sure the only reason a higher being keeps you alive is simply for his personal amusement.

I don’t have a problem with what Sam has written. He has the right to his own opinions and these personal attacks are a little much, though I do believe his blatent stereotyping of the military force is enough of an attack to discredit any arguments, however ligitimate or not they are.

About your argument Sam. I think you should try again, and check your conclusions.

You start with declaring all men and women (save for medical personnel) join the military to commit acts of violence. Say that’s true. Who controls the military?

You refer to the forefathers reasons for creating the military. Well, in order to keep the military from becoming a self governed entity, the military was placed in control of civilians. A general didn’t decide to go to war, an elected official did. The military could be full of people that want to kill (for point of argument), but they can’t unless the people elected say so.

So where does that leave your argument?

“The vast majority of the civilized world sees no difference between ramming a plane into one building and firing a cruise missile or a machine gun at another, even if one is sanctioned by the world�s most powerful government.”

By vast majority of the civilized world, you mean of course… Iraq? Isreal? Afganistan? Turkey?

My mother is from Turkey and had a friend killed in the bombing in Izmir. She understands the difference in a man walking onto a train and blowing up a group of innocent people, and the killing of a group whose purpose is genocide. I think your analysis of the “civilized world” is misguided, and I think that is an insult to the moral character of those unnamed countries. Tell a German (or anyone?) that he doesn’t see a difference in a bombing of a hostile force and the killing of innocent people. The ones who can’t see the difference are the ones attacking the innocent people (not to accuse the countries above).

“Instead, America�s military should be boycotted to the point at which it is incapable of doing anything beyond defending the shores of its home � which, incidentally, is the purpose for which the founding fathers originally created the armed forces.”

I think this shows your lack of understanding of the military. I believe a post above shared the view; summarized, there haven’t been any more terrorist attacks on America, so how do you know the military is protecting you, maybe it’s luck, like not being electrocuted yet.

In fact, there have been other attacks, though the ones that don’t go through often have little media coverage. Unfortunatley, the ones that do go through get covered in depth. We have already seen several examples like this, including Naveed Haq in Seattle and Mohammed Taheri-azar in North Carolina. While those kinds of attacks are not on the scale of 9-11, that will be scant comfort to the families of those wounded and killed. Some attacks still happen and some are still being thwarted. Proof is right in front of you. Do research, though sad that it takes research to find, and you will discover there have been numerous attacks that have been stopped, and some that haven’t. You haven’t been electrocuted because you’re wearing rubber gloves in a padded room of ignorance.

On the “boycott.” I don’t believe the theatrical notion of a boycott is truly applicable, but what if we only guarded our country? The response, “well, ask those who have been save.” is often used. Well, what of those people. Can we be the “Superman” of the world. Can we go and save innocent people from being systematically annihilated? Should we? Is this moral notion something that can be acted upon? If we believe saving people that are being killed simply because they don’t share the same beliefs as those with the “guns” is right, are we not imposing our beliefs on someone else? Well, I, for one, think that we should. If we can use our military force to save the life of people who haven’t done any wrong, then I think we should. Do I think the invasion of Iraq is “just” or do I think we should stay is a whole different story. My point is, I think that we have the power to save people that need saving so we should use it, and we do at times. I think a “boycott” of the U.S. military is, in this argument, the same as standing by while someone is being fataly attacked. Even regardless of the whole, “but we save people” deal, the government, in this case and others, decided that it was better to try and crush the terrorist threats now before they become heads of countries later. Did we do that? Is it possible? History will tell, even if G.I. Joe writes it.

Also, does this boycott stop the humaitarian efforts as well? Why is it no media articles ever focus on the efforts of those in the military who do amazing things every day without guns (more than just medical)?

“If America wishes to defend her own shores, that is entirely her right, and her soldiers should be commended for their willingness to do so. “

You just went from calling the American military a group of violent criminals, to saying they should be commended if their role was soley defense. A group of violent criminals guarding the country I live in.. I hope not.

I really think that you should learn more about your topic before you start to attack a group of people. If your point was to let the public know you think America should focus on defense and keep the military solely on our shores, fine. Say that. Don’t open by accusing the military of being warmongering, violent criminals bent on world destruction. You also negelected to mention that the military doesn’t choose the wars it fights, the civilan population does. An article above displays more convicition and class than I ever could about how the military members are the last ones that should be held accountable since they are only listening to the civilians appointed over them. I agree, though in war, a soldier pulls the trigger. Soldiers, even if given the order, wouldn’t kill people they didn’t think were intending to kill them. How do I know? Ask one, they have to live with it. “Support the troops” is an effort to alleviate the stress on soldiers caused by people(you) who seem to think the military caused this war (and others), and are the sole ones responsible for its ongoing activities. If you want someone to blame, ask the democrats (yes, them too) and republicans why the majority of them backed the President in going to war in the first place. I bet they tell you it’s because they thought that’s what the people they represent wanted.

ps. ROTC is not an organization that teaches people to become “killers” for the US military. It teaches people who choose to be in the military how to lead people, just like a company teaches it’s supervisors. Why is ROTC on this campus? Why not? We allow other groups on. Why is ROTC so bad?They make brainwashed killers? It’s voluntary, and I stated it’s purpose above. They “don’t allow homosexuals.”? Neither does the Catholic Church (and most others) but this campus gives $100,000+ in breaks and grants to the Catholic church. Why don’t you fight that too? ROTC is here to give people the opportunity to join, not to force anyone, not to prevent anyone from doing anything at all, just to give people the ability to join if they choose to.

I may have not grabbed the thesaurus to write this, but I hope my point has come across. If you take anything away from this, or even read it, know that the military forces are comprised of normal people, ordinary to the bone, and that’s what makes their choice to join extraordinary. Some join to make a difference in the world, and hopefully that difference makes the world a better place. Some join for other reasons, but they all put trust in the people to make sure they are aimed at goals that are true and just. Don’t attack them for the government, and societies mistakes.

-Patrick

October 28, 2008 @ 10:30pm -

Thank you

You sterotype the military as a group of people who want to kill, then say we need their protection. You say the two candidates want to use nuclear deterance against these countries, and blame the miliraty, saying they should be boycotted. Boycott the election. The military is just the tool of the governemnt (no offense meant). Why blame the weapon? A corked bat doesn’t mean much when the player is on steroids.

Anyone think it’s ironic that Sam posts this comment, clearly stating the military is full of violent criminals, while the rules for posting are :

We welcome your thoughts, but please keep your feedback thoughtful, on-topic and respectful. Offensive language, personal attacks, or irrelevant comments may be deleted.

Oh I get it, if we generalize our degrading attacks, it’s OK. Gotcha. Maybe if media junkies spent more time on researching their topics and less on looking up words to make them sound more intelligent in order to throw off their irrational arguments they may actually acommplish something worthwhile. Though, I’m sure they are to busy with their very demanding degree…
What to journalist do again?

I am simply shocked that you think someone’s morality is fubar for joining the military. And Sam, my buddy who was a medic in OIF jumped up in the turret and manned the .50 to neutralize a Mahdi Militia threat. So actually they engage in closing with and killing the enemy just as much as the infantry. But I’m sure a human being as intelligent as yourself knew that.

I think it’s interesting that you quote Winston Churchill who did what Neville Chamberlain would not…that is take the fight to Hitler. So after 3,000+ Americans were murdered in a deliberate attack on our home soil, we take the fight to Al-Qaeda. But just like in WWII where our enemy joined a little team that we like to call the Axis Powers, Al-Qaeda has a little team across the Middle East willing to inject American epinepherine into their hearts so they can try to kill as many Americans as they can before they die. I think these words by Winston Churchill are very applicable to our Nation’s current situation, “Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.” In Iraq, we are helping to train the Iraqi Police and Army, train and assist in building their infrastructure, and assist their government in taking full of control of their country. We’ve already handed over much of Iraq to complete Iraqi control. Sound like Nazis to you?

I am not gonna suggest that you move to Canada or something similar, you have the freedom to exercise your free speech no matter how much I disagree. I will still defend you and other Americans just the same even if I have to leave my family and go MORE than 1,000 miles away to ensure these radical muslims do not come into our country and kill more Americans. I’d much rather fight them on foreign soil then wait till they step foot on American soil.

Masa’alama sharmota

Sam, Regardless of how special it makes you feel that you get to ridicule the military because of your involvement with a school newspaper, keep in mind that it is the men and women in the military who took an oath vowing to protect your rights. Even your right to write this garbage about them.

Keep a little perspective next time you decide to write something this ridiculous.

This is, without a doubt, the most ignorant and ungrateful piece of writing I’ve ever come across. Just because you hate your sad and lonely life in your pathetic little college apartment does NOT give you the right to bash the military… the same people who are fighting and have fought to defend and protect your freedom to even write this ridiculous piece of crap.

Show some respect. There’s a reason you can sleep peacefully at night.

Casey Wisneski

Sam, you must have a set of big brass balls!
Thats what it takes to say the things you say, attacking a group of people (some students at this university) that you refer to as violent “Killers”! That doesn’t exactly fit the logic of your article does it? It seems to me that you wish to push the buttons of every soldier, sailor, airman, or Marine on campus, not to mention their families and friends. And if they are the killers you speak of you might be inviting some unwanted attention. If your article was about withdrawing troops from Iraq fine, I get it, I was there, it’s a mess lets get the heck outta there! But you didn’t have to go and attack me or my friends in the process. That just seems reckless, especially when throwing around words like freedom and terrorism on a campus that is known to have plenty of veterans and current service members. I think offending or attacking those who volunteered to serve their country, rather than thanking them for your freedom is a gross miscalculation on your part.

I am personally not offended. I have heard and seen much worse from more highly regarded journalists than the likes of you Mr. Clegg. But I will say this: you did hurt my feelings. I remember when I joined the Military in the year 2000, when you were probably writing your first full essay for your fifth grade teacher, and I definitely did not join to kill anyone… who the hell was there to kill then? Monica Lewinski? I think not! However, I did have my reasons, reasons beyond the many cited in your short uneducated article. The sense of selflessness and duty, loyalty to my country and a commitment to serve, protect, honor, and defend the Constitution of the United States were chiefly the motives I held onto while VOLUNTEERING. How can you boycott something you aren’t required to participate in in the first place?

I’m not sure where you think your article was going to get you Sam, but I know where it has gotten you… in hot water with every current and former uniformed service person who read it. And if you make it this far, or read any of these comments, I hope you find peace in yourself, because the turmoil you have stirred up may not be your own. For some of us it is a daily struggle to leave that “Civilized World” you speak of… many of us are still fighting, even here in Madison.

There isn’t a day that goes by that I don’t think of my friends/brothers/Marines that gave their life for what you so mockingly acknowledge as freedom. Still I don’t look back with regret at the things I’ve seen and done, people I’ve killed, or friends I’ve seen killed. I look back on those moments with pride.
For your sake I hope no one you offended really is a killer, or you will have quite a rough time in the weeks to come. Watch your back bro, and keep your head down… you never know where those silly terrorists, or electrical storms will pop out and kill you!

Andrew B. Brady SGT. USMC

You are not worth the time and energy it would take to calm myself enough to respond to your stupidity. It saddens me to think that there are ungrateful, miserable people like yourself being protected by our armed forces, we should put you on the front lines, give your life some worth!

�War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.� -John Stuart Mill

This is why people don’t like FIBs like yourself. Take your upper-echelon elitism to emos who will understand you in Boston or something. Your rich parents are already paying a lot in tuition, you might as well be with your coastie brethren.

Ok ok ok, I’ve heard this, read some of the comments, and think you are the most arrogant INSERT WORD HERE (for removal of offensive language, i’ll be “censored”).

I do not support this war either and believe it is a horrible thing to be doing. However, when you bash the intelligent men and women who fight for your freedom to say these hateful, irrelevant, and completely idiotic phrases, you cross a line that any American will stand against. To attack and insult the men and women who preserve your freedom, volunteer to put their lives on the line when it counts, and live a life of complete discipline and honor only explains your lack of intelligence and craft.

You talk about not needing an army, or that to defend our shores is “what the forefathers intended” Did you fail history 101 in high school or are you too blinded by the giant ego you seem to have? Our forefathers FOUGHT to keep our country free; not defend because we had nothing to defend, instead, we fought for our freedom. We use the firstattack strategy because those countries that have sat back and defended have been defeated beyond belief! This war may be distasteful and evil, but it is still to hold freedoms we hold dear.

Do you have any idea what threatens our world today? Nuclear weapons, biological weaponery, etc? Intelligence reports due to military invasion allows us to create vaccinations and cures for the biological organism that will cause you to bleed out of your eyes. But of course, our military is too stupid and pointless right? Just because you couldn’t get into the gang within your own school district because your hair was too curly doesn’t mean you should demean some of the most intelligent and brave men and women in this world.

I have three cousins, two uncles, and countless numbers of friends in the army, navy, marines, and air force, and by you ripping on their character means you deserve none of the freedoms you are given. If it was in my power, I would banish you from America and send you to countries like Serbia and Russia, where your insolence and arrogant remarks would get you killed. Do you hear me? KILLED! In Russia, they don’t allow bashing of their government; you do that, they kill you! Yet you sit here and attack the very men and women who prevent that from happening!

Stop using the election to push your stupid views. Not to mention, who the $&%$ are you? What makes you so special to think you have all the answers? Instead of ranting in a COLLEGE PAPER, why don’t you do somethign about it? It is not the fault of the soldiers that we are in Iraq, or that we are talking about invading Iran, Saudia Arabia, and others. It is the fault the politician in office today and the thousands of political advisors and senators that were voted into office! BASH THEM! Write letters, make phone calls, do something about it you inbred little peasant!!! You attack those men and women who defend you, and yet probably praise those who actually make the decisions!

Notice how I can use big words and make no sense as well? No offense…actually wait, yes take offense…i can sit and write an essay with a thesaurus and dictionary as well, but instead I plan on using the God-given brain I have, something you apparently lack.

Think your so mighty and strong right? Sitting in your room ripping on these intelligent people? I find it ironic that you attack the same men and women who could kill you 1500 different ways, but are the “useless” americans who have the discipline and INTELLIGENCE NOT TO! Your not even worth my plight.

However, I do make you this claim. If you do ever feel like doing something other than act like a three year old who didn’t get his blanket, give me a call. I’d be happy to remind you of how worthless and pathetic you truly are.

Stop attacking these honorable people, and stop thinking your so high and mighty. I truly hope you get kicked off this paper as soon as possible, and I promise to make it my mission to get you removed from the paper, or the paper ridiculed and ripped to shreds because of your ignorance.

You are an insult to the Badger Herald, to the Madison community, and to every proud, honorable American. Please leave this country as soon as possible. I’m sure Russia would love to have you!

This does not end here…

~Alex Schwartz

EPIC FAIL

“…so unlike the Teddy Roosevelt policy of walking carefully and having a big stick, you recommend we walk carefully with a feather?”

No, he just advocates carrying the stick instead of randomly striking out with it.

If you truly believe that the overwhelming amount of soldiers dying for us (whether for a reason or not) is useless, you should contemplate leaving the country. Maybe go to Canada where they have an extremely well- developed armed forces… oh wait. Look, my brother has been serving in the Army Rangers for the past 5 years, leaving for his 5th tour to Iraq today at 5:00 A.M. For you to indirectly name him as being stupid or saying we should boycott them is the most ignorant thing I’ve heard to date. My brother has killed quite a few people in Iraq, yes. Does he enjoy it like you so childishly claim? Absolutely not. My brother has cried many times when coming back home because it hurts too much inside. He keeps going back because it’s his job. Whether you like it or not, he defends his country in whatever way they tell him to. I suggest you join the army and put yourself in their shoes before you go off on another liberal temper tantrum again

Why doesn’t Sam defend himself? It’s an opportunity to own up to your words. Maybe he realizes how ignorant his comments were?

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” -Voltaire Mr. Clegg, Voltaire has it right when it comes to the United States military and protecting the freedoms of so many individuals in our great nation. As a member of the Air Force who is native to Wisconsin, I take great offense to your writing. But, I will continue to fight for your freedom, your freedom to write distasteful articles such as the one you have written here. All members of the U.S. military have vowed to protect your freedoms and the freedoms of every U.S. citizen, this is proven by the first Code of Conduct. I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and OUR WAY OF LIFE. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

There are quite a few people outraged that Sam said that people who join the military are bloodthirsty killers who joined for the violence and destruction. It makes me wonder how carefully they read the article, as what Sam actually wrote was:

“The consensus on America�s armed men and women is that they are imbued with some inherent sense of heroism and honor, and whatever the depravity of their overseers, the soldiers themselves are above reproach….But for a great number of American soldiers, joining the military enables those same overseers to commit the acts of violence the public in this country and abroad regard as so appalling.”

He’s not saying that they are joining to commit appalling acts, which several posters who flamed Sam for this article were quick to accuse him of; instead, he’s pointing out that it is those in charge who are responsible for the choices. But, instead of saying that this makes them void of all moral responsibility, as several people (such as 10/29 8:27) argue, Sam’s arguing that by joining the military they are empowering those in charge who are responsible for the decisions behind the atrocities, and therefore act as the mechanism for the negative effects of war. Combine that with the fact that the war in Iraq is by no stretch of the imagination necessary to preserve American freedoms, those who join the military, by whatever manner of downplaying or ignoring the errors of those in charge of the military, are therefore responsible for their actions, despite the fact that they receive orders from their superiors.

Furthermore none have given any counter-example to the poster above who claimed that the military in the last 50 years has not acted directly with the purpose of protecting American freedoms. The few who have said that this claim is erroneous have not actually provided arguments against it, but merely claimed that it is false.

Also, having known Sam personally, any of you who would attack his article on personal ground (which btw is ad hominem and is therefore logically invalid) can go shove it up your ass. (Although I did get a nice laugh out of the one calling him a Marxist.)

The hypocrisy of this article struck me as hilarious, not to mention the complete self-righteousness of being able to judge 2 million people and question their morality because of the sins of the few. You should take your hand, lift it up, and give yourself a self-earned b#@ slap. While the idealism of sitting solitary away from the madness of humanity, not having an army, and not giving a damn is tempting, suffice to say it is truly ignorant to think that simply “thinking” that foreign policy can be had with rainbows and cheery thoughts will not make that necessarily happen. The U.N. is a prime example of how International policy with no teeth yields no results….except for international crimes like rape and pillage that never quite make it to the front pages like the crimes of American soldiers.

Oh, and for the last idiot who posted, we have an ROTC program because the UW likes taking money from the governent to support half-wits like you, you ingrate. Typical UW student, bite the hand that feeds.

The hypocrisy of this article struck me as hilarious, not to mention the complete self-righteousness of being able to judge 2 million people and question their morality because of the sins of the few. You should take your hand, lift it up, and give yourself a self-earned b#@ slap. While the idealism of sitting solitary away from the madness of humanity, not having an army, and not giving a damn is tempting, suffice to say it is truly ignorant to think that simply “thinking” that foreign policy can be had with rainbows and cheery thoughts will not make that necessarily happen. The U.N. is a prime example of how International policy with no teeth yields no results….except for international crimes like rape and pillage that never quite make it to the front pages like the crimes of American soldiers.

Oh, and for the last idiot who posted, we have an ROTC program because the UW likes taking money from the governent to support half-wits like you, you ingrate. Typical UW student, bite the hand that feeds.

Wow, you have a lot of balls to write something like this. The people that you just compaired to terrorits are protecting your freedoms, and then you go say something like this? Yea your write it is the same, ramming a commercial passenger jet into a building with thousands of workers, or US feeing a people from a sadist dictator, and having our people help another.

The fact of the matter is, is that it is people like you that need to have their eyes opened and stop being so selfish thinking that what you say is right. These Americans that we all SHOULD hold as a priviledge know that when they sign their contract outcomes like this can happen. And they are proud to serve for their country.

Now Sam what have you done for your country? Oh yea…NOTHING.

I am a staff sergeant in the Wisconsin Army National Guard. Mr. Clegg’s article, though ham handed, certainly does make some good points about the problems with our current military social infrastructure. I have had my ups and downs with certain aspects of military life: multiple deployments, incompetent command elements, my brigade recently losing my entire medical file going back to 2001, etc. I could go on and on but it’s no more interesting to read about than your average worker griping about his or her factory/sales/custodial job.

The point of the editorial by Mr. Clegg that I most take exception to is the notion that:

“the United States military is fortunate to contain a great many individuals who hold idealism in higher esteem than violence. They are known as medical personnel. But for a great number of American soldiers, joining the military enables those same overseers to commit the acts of violence the public in this country and abroad regard as so appalling.”

I’m guessing from this statement that Mr. Clegg has either a skewed opinion of people who join the military or he has some degree of passing experience with a portion of the military machine. My guess is that he has no clue what he’s talking about though I would be overjoyed if he would respond with his sources, experiences, or qualifications to make this sort of judgment.

I joined as an infantryman, have served as a combat engineer, and am currently a cavalry scout. At no point have I let love of violence dictate my actions in Iraq, if not then I’m sorry to say that I would have killed at least one innocent man. For Mr. Clegg say that medical personnel have a moral high ground is insulting to everyone else who serves and hides your point that there are actually people who join the military to commit random violence. I worked with PSYOPS while on my first deployment; our job was to provide security for them while they sat with tribal leaders and discussed how we could best help them get their land and social workings back on track (this was in September 2003). Most if not all of the PSYOPS guys were former infantry and many had their combat patches. Was their idealism any lesser than a medical technician’s? No, it was not then and is not now and to suggest otherwise is to paint a large part of our military with a very biased brush.

I suggest that Mr. Clegg do more research on this though do I applaud the fact that he actually had the wherewithal to voice his minority opinion in a newspaper, however skewed it may be.

SSG Gerald Eggleston

Just thought I’d share some thoughts from my brother serving in Afghanistan currently.

“Every now and again I see pictures in the newspaper of protesters lined up in the streets of Baghdad or Kabul or Kandahar. Most of the time they’re protesting the US military presence. I really don’t care if they’re protesting me being here. I can’t help but smile to know that they have the freedoms now to march on the streets.”

Doesn’t sound like a violent man to me. And surprisingly enough, he’s not “medical personnel”. Me and my family were pretty taken aback by this article. While it is your right to express your feelings about the conduct and strategy of the war, I don’t think it is morally correct to take shots at the individuals that make daily sacrifices in service of our nation. As a Navy brat with several family members veterans, I learned quickly that military personnel happen to be some of the most upstanding, ethical, and moral citizens.

Steven Anderson

This article was brought to my attention by a fellow officer who has a brother in the ROTC at Madison. I am Wisconsin born and bred, so I was greatly disappointed by this Clegg fellow’s article. Mr Clegg if you have a problem with the United States being in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is something you should take up with the politicians. No member of my chain of command decided that we enter either of these conflicts. None of my Soldiers decided to invade these countries. The reason I love this country is the simple fact that every person born here has the opportunity to be whatever they want to be. No one is forced or coerced into doing anything that they do no want to do. Mr Clegg I have no problem with you voicing your opinion about our involvement in these wars. That is your right, and I hold nothing against you for that. The major problem I have with this article is the fact that you have the audacity to smear the reputation and character of my fellow brothers in arms. Hey Sam pick a fight with someone who is in your own class. The American Soldier, Airman, Marine and SAilor are out of your league. We live by words like integrity, honor and selfless service, you use them as a punch line. How dare you try to drag them through the mud in order to increase the circulation of your paper. Sam stick to “badmouthing” someone else and leave the military men and women out of your little rants and selfish tantrums.

1LT Joseph Kettula Currently deployed in Afghanistan