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Today, just over 100 UW students are going to start something obnoxious, uninspiring, rushed and unfocused.
It’s called “Journalism 202: Mass Communication Practices,” when a more apt title would be “Journalism 202: Skimming the Top 4 Percent off of Everything in the Field, Leaving You With a Confused and Hollow Feeling.”
Sure, it’s less catchy, but it’s certainly more accurate.
These poor kids, having already endured “Journalism 201: Weeding Out People From the Major Through Forced Debates on Neil Postman,” are about to go through one of the most frustrating experiences of their academic careers.
For those of you unfamiliar with the course, allow me to briefly describe it, having just completed the 6-credit-but-really-8-or-9-credit monster myself.
You’ve got a 90-minute lecture one day a week and a three-hour lab two days a week. For the first few weeks, you write leads (or ledes as snobs say) for various mediums, including advertising, broadcast, newspaper and so on. Then you do deadline stories in lab for the same mediums. No matter how much experience you’ve had in news writing, it’s practically impossible to get above an 80 on these.
A few weeks in, you start software training. The main program you spend time on is Dreamweaver, which is all done through podcasts outside of class. You learn InDesign, SoundStudio, Audacity, Soundslides, iMovie and Excel in lab. After that, you do some group projects with audio and video, design a website with your entire lab for about a month, do some more audio and video projects and boom, you’re done.
Thrilling, right? To add a bit of spice to it all, some TAs don’t know the programs as well as their students, so these students end up teaching the rest of the class. Coupled with the two major and scrupulous writing assignments, weekly current events quizzes on whatever instructor Katy Culver decides is important and a communication struggle between Culver and the TAs, you’re stuck right in the middle of a convoluted mess.
I asked myself many times, “Why am I spending hours learning Dreamweaver, Audacity, InDesign, etc. when these are some of the most intuitive programs in existence and could be self-learned in a matter of days if they were necessary for a job? Aren’t there more important things we could be focusing on?” or “Why aren’t we, you know, writing more?”
The answer is simple: Culver and friends squeeze too much information into this one course.
See, UW was the first major university to ditch the old-fashioned model of the journalism major. Back in the day, you would choose among tracks based on what type of journalism you wanted to go into — print, radio, television and so on.
UW’s idea was a good one: Since the field is changing, students should be required to have knowledge of all facets of the industry — a concept dubbed “convergence journalism.” It was from this concept that J202 was born, and many of the nation’s best journalism schools have followed in UW’s footsteps.
But the School of Journalism has not changed much since 2000, and it’s in need of some serious reform if it is to remain among the best.
No school does it quite like UW does. For example, take the well-respected Indiana University School of Journalism. There are four classes of required introductory courses at three credits each — one class dedicated to foundation and theory (� la mode of UW’s J201), one dedicated to doing research, one dedicated to reporting and one dedicated to new media.
The last three courses there — research, reporting and new media — are essentially what make up 202. At IU, it’s nine credits of information spread out over two or three semesters. At UW, it’s six credits thrown at you in 14 nauseating weeks.
The problem isn’t the content or the instructor. A look at the reviews of Culver’s course over a six-year period shows she is seen as an effective teacher by a vast majority of her students. Yet even among those who like Culver’s class, many still criticize it for being rushed.
“Too broad of topics are covered. I wasn’t able to master one skill (or two), instead I learned how to generally do too many things, which is unhelpful,” wrote a student in Fall 2006.
And therein lies the problem. If you want to be one of the best journalism schools in the country, students need to be given the opportunity for a strong base in all facets of the field — not just the top 4 percent.
You need to dedicate three credits to making videos, editing audio for online and building websites. You need a writing-intensive three credits of research and reporting. You need three credits of strategic communication. And you need to make all students take all of them over two or three semesters, before or immediately upon entering the J-School.
After this, students can go their own ways and focus on what interests them most. It may make double majoring a little more difficult, but so long as at least one of these courses is offered before entrance into the school, it’s very doable.
A big problem with implementing a plan like this is a lack of funding. Culver doesn’t hide her frustrations about this, and rightfully so. Like many departments, the School of Journalism is seeking money from the Madison Initiative for Undergraduates. But J-School Director Greg Downey’s plan would add new TAs and instructors to offer certain 100- and 400-level courses, not alter the core of the major.
To actually fix J202 would require a much bigger monetary commitment from UW or, dare I say it, a differential tuition akin to the School of Business or the School of Engineering.
For now, those of us in the school are left with what we’ve got, and we hope the minimal multimedia experience, coupled with some internships, will land us a job in the field.
And if that doesn’t happen, at least we’ll be able to design a website for our cousin’s bar mitzvah.
Kevin Bargnes ([email protected]) is a junior majoring in journalism.
IP hash: cfe879b3
As a senior Journalism major, and someone who busted her ass in 202, I think Bargnes argument is unfounded.
I went through J202 in the fall of 2008, and at times I felt overworked and overstressed, but I wouldn’t trade my experience for the world.
Yes, the class pumps a lot of information at students. At 6 credits, anyone who doesn’t expect two classes full of work is kidding themselves. And the range of topics is broad, to be sure. But it is in 202 that students decide, if they haven’t already, whether they want to go into reporting or strategic communication (the two tracks offered by the J School). How better to determine this than spanning the gamut of topics and technologies related to mass communication? You want specifics? Take a 300, 400, 500 or 600 Journalism level course.
I wholeheartedly disagree with Bargnes assertion of a “miscommunication struggle” between Professor Culver and the 202 TAs. Both Culver and the TAs work very closely with students, trying to help students see the purpose of each assignment and the light at the end of the tunnel. I cannot tell you how many times I frantically emailed my TA or showed up bright and early to Culver’s office hours. Both women were always willing to help and offer much needed consolation when I was in Dreamweaver duress.
So here I am, a double-tracking senior. I have fulfilled my major requirements, with almost twice the required Journalism credits, but I just can’t get enough J school. I love the material, I love the social function of Journalism. The UW-Madison Journalism school has done great things for me, for my friends and for the journalism industry as a whole.
Lambasting the J school may help you rationalize your performance in 202, Mr. Bargnes, but your argument doesn’t hold up for all of us.
IP hash: 3404e7fa
Claire-
I avoid responding to comments but given the nature of this topic I think it’s appropriate. You seemed to have missed my points.
What is learned in J202 is important, because it allows for practical experience while giving you time to decide if you want to do reporting or strat comm.
My point is that UW keeps talking about creating these journalists who are versatile—journalists who can write, report for video, edit audio for internet, run a live blog, and so on. J202 offers students a rushed taste for this. If you truly want students to know how to do this, you need to have ENTIRE courses devoted to them, and you need to make them the foundation of the major. J202 is too ambitious of a course, it needs to be broken into separate parts with separate focuses if people are actually going to be given a strong based in this whole “convergence journalism” thing.
Further, the “miscommunication struggle” I was referring to is evident—the TAs struggle to keep up with everything Katy expects of them just as the students do. I’m not saying it’s a huge problem, because it’s bound to happen in any exhaustive course, but it seems to be worse in 202 than in anything I (and others I’ve discussed this with) have seen, which is another negative byproduct of having a course that covers so much.
And what on earth do you know about my “performance” in the course? In the interest of full disclosure, I got a B, which is what I set out to get, given my commitments at the Herald last semester.
I’d be happy to discuss this with you further…but this time, email me at [email protected] instead of, you know, blindly attacking my academic record.
See ya around Vilas :-D
-Kevin
IP hash: 5de78705
Fact Error with your first line here. I see a future in Fox News for you.
IP hash: af3b42ce
I couldn’t agree more with this. As a student who just completed J202, I don’t think I could do much beyond the most rudimentary tasks using the “new media” software we learned. I could probably create a simple audio story in Audacity, a sloppy slideshow in SoundSlides and a bare-bones website using Dreamweaver, as long as I had Katy’s podcast playing with directions as I did it.
I would have loved to have explored this software further, and expanded my knowledge in web, audio, video and visual reporting, but instead I have a bare-bones knowledge of each.
IP hash: 92c05fb5
J202 is horrible. They need a new professor to oversee a sequence of replacement courses for the 200 and 300 level course. The one they have in charge of J202 now is totally unqualified for the job.
IP hash: b07733fa
Since J202 is the first real class you take as a J-School major, I think it’s completely appropriate to be given a taste of the wide range of ideas and concentrations you could go on to tackle in news or strategic communication.
Some posters above complain about learning only some rudimentary skills about a variety of topics and software - that is the point. Now you can choose what you’re interested in and pursue it down the road.
I don’t know how you expect one professor to figure out what every single one of you want to do individually and tailor it to your exact needs. Grow up, you brats, and take some initiative to further your education instead of expecting someone to hand it to you on a silver platter, then complain when every single class isn’t exactly what you “think” you need.
IP hash: 53c11d41
To make it clear, not all journalism school students feel this way. Most of us are actually quite fond of the J School, including its classes and dedicated professors who would give up a body part to see students succeed.
IP hash: 22075ab1
Isn’t every major that way? Do they offer a six-credit behemoth that skims your hand over every aspect or do you start at point A and progress through until you have hit all the topics with enough depth to fully grasp them? It’s idiotic. They used to have a ‘just reporting’ class for first time majors, then a broacast sequence (2-3 courses), print sequence, PR sequence, advertising sequence, marketing sequence, etc. Get the idea? If you watch 60 images edited into 30 seconds you don’t absorb much.
IP hash: ee6521fe
The author has taken the first two courses of an undergraduate major and now expects to evaluate the whole program, including the its appropriateness in light of the changing situation in related professional fields. He becomes erratic when things aren’t as simple and straightforward as he’d like, and he smoothly glides over conflicting information. Sounds like a budding journalist to me.
IP hash: 79ae2381
I agree 100% with ‘04 Grad. I took the very first 202 class in 2001 and hated it when Katy made a web master for the final project. But, looking back, that experience ended up being invaluable as my career consists of using all the skills I learned from making web sites to writing blogs to making videos. I will always be glad at how 202 taught me how to incorporate all of those multimedia tools with the writing that I was learning. To think journalism anymore is just writing is near sighted. Learning that software is just as important as working on writing.
Yes it is a lot of work, it is a lot of skills to absorb but when you enter the proverbial real world, you won’t have separate three credit classes to learn all the new technology and ways to conduct journalism. In just the six years since I left UW my fellow graduates and I have had to learn how to use/incorporate social media, video, blogs, etc into our jobs. Things that weren’t really around in 2001 when I first went through 202. I had to learn them on my own and I had to learn them fast.
A note on Katy Culver too. Is she tough? Heck yes. Does she care about her students more than most professors I’ve met? Absolutely. It’s why she’s so tough. It drives you nuts sometimes, but in the end you will be grateful for it. She could definitely use more funding and I’m sure any program could always use some tweaking to work better, but to think she doesn’t think every day to make sure she’s doing right by her students is wrong.
IP hash: 79ae2381
I agree 100% with ‘04 Grad. I took the very first 202 class in 2001 and hated it when Katy made a web master for the final project. But, looking back, that experience ended up being invaluable as my career consists of using all the skills I learned from making web sites to writing blogs to making videos. I will always be glad at how 202 taught me how to incorporate all of those multimedia tools with the writing that I was learning. To think journalism anymore is just writing is near sighted. Learning that software is just as important as working on writing.
Yes it is a lot of work, it is a lot of skills to absorb but when you enter the proverbial real world, you won’t have separate three credit classes to learn all the new technology and ways to conduct journalism. In just the six years since I left UW my fellow graduates and I have had to learn how to use/incorporate social media, video, blogs, etc into our jobs. Things that weren’t really around in 2001 when I first went through 202. I had to learn them on my own and I had to learn them fast.
A note on Katy Culver too. Is she tough? Heck yes. Does she care about her students more than most professors I’ve met? Absolutely. It’s why she’s so tough. It drives you nuts sometimes, but in the end you will be grateful for it. She could definitely use more funding and I’m sure any program could always use some tweaking to work better, but to think she doesn’t think every day to make sure she’s doing right by her students is wrong.
IP hash: e8cd2e75
As a journalism instructor outside of UW, I can tell you that this is not the first time I’ve heard or seen journalism students complaining about rigorous courses. What’s ironic is that they often come back years later and thank the instructors for the course. I’m not sure Mr. Bargnes is enlightened enough to understand or see that but there is always hope.
A couple of suggestions on your writing, Mr. Bargnes, since that seems to be what you want to focus on. You’re practicing journalism — the best columnists out there, and I’ve worked with many — interview and add quotes on their columns. A few quotes from Katy Culver would have added much needed balance and perspective to your piece — and maybe even strengthened your points a bit. This actually could have been a fairly constructive piece with a little more reporting, editing and perspectives from others. It reads now like a petulant attack from an angry student.
Maybe you need to take the course over again.
IP hash: f151ec33
Maybe, but your snide and sarcastic treatment of Mr. Bargnes is not fair to him and greatly weakens the credibility of your option.
IP hash: b8d77043
What a whiny excuse for a column. Can’t handle a college multimedia course and expects to get a job someday? Too much info? Lol. Surely the real world won’t be anything like that.
/dude I hope you have business minor or something
IP hash: 80ee03ed
mediums? maybe J201 did fail you.
IP hash: c100a0b6
I didn’t see any indication that honesty, integrity, and complete reporting of the whole truth had any importance at all in “modern” journalism. I wonder where they teach that part?
IP hash: b8d77043
You asked: Why am I spending hours learning Dreamweaver, Audacity, InDesign, etc. when these are some of the most intuitive programs in existence and could be self-learned in a matter of days if they were necessary for a job?
You’re right - these programs are very intuitive and can be self-learned in a matter of days, hours if there’s someone there to help you, like say, in a classroom environment.
Your instructor likely chose them because, frankly, we future employers expect you to know those programs when you apply for journalism jobs now, and use them to tell compelling stories. We’re not in the business of letting people wing it and learn on our dime.
A future employer would much rather see something like this along with a resume - http://bit.ly/6hJskh (done by a college journalist like you, but for the NYT) than a text clip what you wrote above about not being able to handle the workload of a six-credit multimedia course using pro-sumer tools.
Hopefully as a journalism major in 2010 - you got a little more from those tools than ideas for your cousin’s bar mitzvah site. Otherwise, I’d suggest another career path for you.
IP hash: 86c2d97a
It’s not a college multimedia course. It’s an intro course that attempts to teach too much in one class. I took it a few semesters ago and realized that they did not really teach most of the programs. I explained aspects of InDesign to the TA and SoundStudio, Audacity, Soundslides and iMovie are all incredibly intuitive and pathetically amateur (and are taught in little depth too boot). That says nothing of the grading system that plays on student’s insecurities. The point is that the class is simply 40 pounds of S—- stuffed into a 10 pound sack.
IP hash: b07733fa
“Grading system that plays on student’s insecurities”? I give you an A in whining, extra credit for probably having a helicopter parent that schedules all of your classes for you and still does your laundry and an F in taking personal responsibility and getting ready for the real world.
IP hash: a33b785d
Really? The TA’s give out bad grades early, and then grade easier an tell students they are improving. Considering the fact that a near perfect early assignment might get a 70 percent at best, it would seem that Mrs. Culver performs miracles since almost no one gets worse than a B. Or perhaps the system is meant to scare overachieving j-schoolers into working extra hard.
As for “getting ready for the real world,” the point is that J202 does a bad job of it, assuming it aims to train journalists.
IP hash: 15320276
I cannot believe the Badger Herald actually published this. Out of the 30,000 students who attend UW Madison, how many of them dislike a course, or an instructor, or an entire curriculum? Some of them have valid concerns, many do not. The thing is, students already have multiple venues to air their grievances. Every class has an anonymous evaluation form at the end for students to fill out. Or, if a student has guts, he/she can meet with the professor or department chair in person. And if students absolutely must speak publicly, they can do so at ratemyprofessor.com.
Why do we need an op ed piece on a topic like this? Is this going to be a regular column? If so, Badger Herald, you’ll have disgruntled students lining down the block to participate.
Tomorrow’s piece: “Why I hate Biology 101” Wednesday: “English 201 sucks” Thursday: “French 205 with Prof Smith is so boring”
Fascinating, indeed.
IP hash: b8d77043
Hmmm. Tools they teach are so easy, but the course is too hard?
Maybe the writer of this column should give up multimedia journalism and go for good old beat crime reporting.
Looks like he’s already perfectly suited to chase the waaaaaaah-waaambulance!
IP hash: a33b785d
“Hmmm. Tools they teach are so easy, but the course is too hard?”
No, they try to teach to many topics so none of them can be learned well.
IP hash: b07733fa
This is considered an entry-level course, right? Being the first one you take as a J-School major? Since when do you master any topic at the beginning of your college career? If you’d like to “learn well” within just one semester, why don’t you check out the at-home by-mail courses offered through a 1-800 number during daytime game shows
IP hash: b07733fa
Ok, that was a little harsh, I’m sorry I just really don’t understand why students are so upset that they can’t be experts at something right away? It’s entry-level!
IP hash: 86c2d97a
But that highlights the problem. You go through those programs plus inverted pyramid, document stories, the art of interviewing, elements of strategic communication and a slew of other subjects (all in the first 12 weeks). Does any other entry level class attempt to cover twelve different aspects of the field in one or two week chunks in a semester? No. Look at econ, chemistry, history and English. None of the entry level classes try to cover everything, they focus on broader subjects. The solution is to have two entry level classes, one that focuses on writing, interviewing and elements of Strat Comm and the other that focuses on audio stories/slideshows, page design and a bit of video (the web stuff I can take or leave because serious web people learn how to code and Dreamwever does little to that end).
As for the the easy to learn/hard course comment below, the course is basically stuffed with irritating busy work that does not lead to enough actual learning. There are constant assignments but few build on each other. Sure I can put audio under pictures and call it a slide show, but if we’re not taught to use it as an effective story form, what’s the point?
IP hash: b8d77043
When you graduate, and get a job reporting or producing, do you really think you’re going to get one assignment at a time, on one platform at a time?
IP hash: 86c2d97a
No, but there is almost no college major that can say a class is just like the working world.
I assume whoever employed me as a reporter or producer would want me to have some sort of knowledge and feel for the program I was using. And that is something one does not necessarily get in the three practical classes required by the degree. If the program is failing in one element of preparing it’s students (something that could be corrected in a relatively simple way) that should be called out.
IP hash: 86c2d97a
Dear Journalism alum
“one of the toughest classes on the UW campus”? Really. I’d say Chem 109, Accounting 100 and Bio 151 are much more difficult, just to name a few. If 202 was so tough, why does no one do badly? Based on the last available grade distribution (one semester before mr. Bargnes took it sadly), only four people earned below a B. Real tough, huh?
IP hash: 2cf491b0
If the tools they teach are so easy to learn, why are you complaining about how hard it is? At least you have classes that teach you these tools. I will be graduating in May with a degree in atmospheric sciences, with the intent of trying to get a job in broadcast meteorology. While I have gotten a great education in the scientific subject matter, the only way that I could learn anything relevant to the broadcasting aspect was through internships - there are no classes whatsoever at UW that would help me with the broadcasting part.
IP hash: fab21370
This column was horrible. J202 was my favorite class of my college career. Yes, it is difficult. Yes, it is a TON of information. And yes, some of the TA’s even have a hard time keeping up with the software. But the point of the class is to teach YOU as much as possible and decide which areas you want to excel in.
The quizzes are not even that bad, AND they only last for 8 weeks. After that, you get to do a group project and build a Web site with your lab. With the journalism industry failing, knowing how to design and build a Web site should be the first thing every journalism student should be able to do.
Kevin Bargnes, even though you just completed one of the toughest classes on the UW campus, get your head out of your ass and try to take a look at the bigger picture of the course. Maybe you are just sour because you didn’t put enough energy into the class and got a bad grade. If that’s the case, you should switch majors.
IP hash: 86c2d97a
Dear Journalism alum
�one of the toughest classes on the UW campus�? Really. I�d say Chem 109, Accounting 100 and Bio 151 are much more difficult, just to name a few. If 202 was so tough, why does no one do badly? Based on the last available grade distribution (one semester before mr. Bargnes took it sadly), only four people earned below a B. Real tough, huh?
IP hash: edd51fbf
When you look at the grading distribution, then yes, you could say that J202 is not the hardest course at UW-Madison. However, if you ask students who have taken the class, I believe that they will tell you that it takes a lot of effort to get at least a B.
I am in the Journalism School and am also in the Certificate in Business program through the School of Business. I took Accounting 100. Between the two classes, J202 demands more from you… much more from you. Accounting 100, in my opinion, appears to be hard because the business school has a strong curve to ensure that the average grade in the course cannot be higher than a 3.0, meaning that effort does not equate to a good letter grade.
To the individual who says that J202 is not a hard course, I say one thing: the next time that you have to schedule five-eight interviews for your independent story that needs to be compiled in web, print, audio and video forms while compressing 8 pages worth of information into a one page article, give me a ring.
Oh, and don’t forget to listen to the weekly podcast and alumni videos that connect the material in class to the working world.
IP hash: 86c2d97a
I have taken it. Did all the busy work. Did fine.
I guess I don’t see the course as rigorous but instead just demanding. But that demanding nature does not lead to the end of more knowledge for students or for an effective learning environment.
“If you ask students who have taken the class, I believe that they will tell you that it takes a lot of effort to get at least a B.” I have, and from what I can see, it requires a lot of effort to pull better than a B. If someone can not hand in three elements of their IS project and get a B, it’s not that hard (yes this happened).
IP hash: b8d77043
Isn’t an intro class meant to give you a broader stroke so you can decide if you want to explore certain facets further? And do you really think an employer in this economic climate is going to pay you to sit around and teach yourself the basics of software that you should have learned in college? Looks like you’ve already taken “Entitlement 201: Why everyone should bend over and help me”.
IP hash: fc4df5de
After a couple of undergraduate courses, man you are ready to become department chair. Can someone get this guy an honorary doctorate so he can start designing J curriculum.
I like how you call out and bash the instructor in your article and then get butt hurt when someone calls you out in the comments (next time email me).
That’s also a great picture, great for the faculty to circulate with the words “Beware of Whiner.” Good luck in your Journalism career—you’re going to need it.
IP hash: b671319c
I think this was a well-written piece that raised a lot of serious questions about the Journalism school and J202.
But…(and I know this will come off as condescending but I can’t help it) there is something huge you are missing that could not yet know.
I graduated this past spring and now work at one of the largest advertising agencies in Chicago. I am IMMENSELY thankful for the experience I got in J202.
J202 is like an entry-level job. Perpetual confusion, stress and unrealistic expectations. You sign up for 6 credits and feel like its 8 or 9? You sign up for a 9-5 job and end up staying as late as 2:30 AM. Your TA’s grade you harshly and it sucks…you’ll have those days with any boss.
So while I understand college is a time for growh and should be a safe place to learn, I appreciated the fact that I was pushed in J202 and learned how to handle that stress before entering the Real World.
IP hash: f2388f69
I could not agree with you more. I also graduated this past spring and I honestly do not know how the journalism school, and J202, could have prepared me any better for an entry-level job in this industry. Any job you have is going to be demanding and confusing - the pressures of J202 adequately prepare you for this stress.
I think it is quite unfair to judge an entire program based upon the intro course - especially a program that is one of the top rated in the country and is consistently praised for the high-level graudates it produces.
IP hash: 97484626
to complain about combining all of these elements of journalism into one class shows a true lack of understanding of the field—how do you think magazines are published? different people are in charge of editorial content, marketing, design, web, and multimedia. but all of those teams must collaborate constantly, which requires at least of basic understanding of all of those elements, something that j202 gives students. in that regard, j202 is a necessary evil of sorts—it’s tough, and you might not like it, and you might not feel like you’re learning everything there is to know about photoshop or indesign or dreamweaver, but you need a basic understanding of those programs and what they do.
by the way, try taking almost any other class in the j school and then complaining about j202. some of the 400-level classes make 202 look like a cakewalk. and next time you want to bash any professor, you should really think twice. katy will bust your butt (and it seems like you need it), but she would also do anything for her students. i’m sorry that you didn’t see that side of her, and i’m sorry that you got a B in her class, but i’m not really sure that your experience in the class justifies your rant.
IP hash: 6a76ed33
Some of the points about software training are valid - depending on the TA you have. As a 202’er, I was often frustrated by my TA’s lack of knowledge and ended up spending many hours helping other students who were not so fortunate to pick up these programs as easily as I did.
However, as many have pointed out:
1) This is an intro class. It is meant to be hurried because often that’s how the real world works. You have to pick it up as you go and won’t always be babied along. A lot of the concepts you briefly touch on in 202 come back and are examined in more detail in later classes. That’s why 300 and 400 level classes exist.
2) After being removed from the class for a bit (say, for a semester or so) you will begin to realize just how useful all of the stuff you learned really can be. Through other classes or internships, you will have to know these programs and won’t be given time to sit around and try to figure it out. A general understanding of the Adobe Creative Suite and other programs taught in 202 is extremely valuable when you’re hunting for an internship.
I’m sorry that your work ethic is so poor. 202 is tough, but it doesn’t necessarily get easier from there.
IP hash: ece02bc4
As an undergraduate in the science field (biochemistry to be exact) I think I can bring a different perspective to the discussion:
Quit bitching, honestly. Journalism, from what I understand, is a difficult major. Deal with it, or major in consumer science or communicative disorders. Also, you need to give credit where credit is due. And that would be to the University of Wisconsin, for having one of the best Journalism schools in the country. I know you say otherwise, but they must be doing something right.
Stop bitching about a weed out class. Believe it or not, journalism is not the only major with weed out classes. Actually, I think the j-school could do a better job weeding out people like you to maintain their reputation. If J202 is a weed out class than how did such a narrow minded person like you make it through?
So J202 meets for 90 minutes plus two, three hour labs per week. According to my math that’s 7.5 hours per week for 6 credits. Sign me up! Chem 103, which is the most entry level chemistry class for a science major and probably parallels j201 in function, has 3 lectures, a discussion, and a 3 hour lab per week. That’s 7 hours per week for 4 credits. And another example: analytical chemistry, which is a slightly more advanced class probably equivalent to a 300 level class in the J-school, has 9 hours of class per week for 4 credits.
My point isn’t to tell you that one major is harder or better than the other. I would do terrible in a journalism class, as you could probably already tell by my less than adequate writing and lack of big impressive words that every other comment seems to be full of. I just want you to open your eyes, look at the bigger picture, and trust your university to guide you in the right direction instead of fighting it. If college was easy they would hand out degrees. You took a challenging class and it you didn’t like it because it was hard. You’re not fooling anybody by saying the class is taught wrong when what you really meant to say was that this class challenged me and pushed me out of my comfort zone and I couldn’t take it. Man up and quit bitching about a hard class or transfer to Minnesota where I’m sure they’ll hold you by the hand for the rest of your undergrad.
What were you complaining about again?
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“Quit bitching, honestly. Journalism, from what I understand, is a difficult major. Deal with it.” It really isn’t that difficult.
“Stop bitching about a weed out class. Believe it or not, journalism is not the only major with weed out classes.” It’s not a weed out class. Weed out classes give bad grades. If a class like this was offered before you got into the J-School, it would be a great weed out class.
Lastly, the problem is not that the class is hard. The issue is that it attempts to cover too much. It is unpleasant and ineffective, and in the context of the journalism curriculum, that is a problem. There are only three required practical classes necessary to be a journalism major (there are seven total required classes, four are theory/history). Again, covering 10+ practical topics over 15 weeks with little to no depth is not good if it makes up one-third of a practical journalism education.
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Web site not website… you learn that in 202.
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Web site not website… you learn that in 202.
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Web site not website… you learn that in 202.
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Website (not web site) is part of The Badger Herald style book. Not every newspaper follows AP style 100 percent of the time. You learn THAT in 335.
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To the original author: Constructive and informed criticism is fine for op eds. But drawing the target around the arrow is shabby journalism. You’ve made a choice here — as an employer, were I to read this piece I would put your resume in the “no thanks” pile.
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To 6:44 - Actually, that’s AP style. Herald style is website, so, uh, you’re wrong. Maybe YOU need to review before being a douchebag and making incorrect accusation. Kevin has been an employee at the Herald long enough to get that one right. So stop bitching.
Now…
In response to the article, I agree with Kevin to a certain extent. I found J202 to be a very challenging course with obvious benefits, such as learning the foundations of proper writing for print, broadcast, strat comm, etc. But more importantly, Kevin is completely right about the course’s inability to cram that much information into people’s heads in 14 weeks.
To those of you who think he’s wrong, I think you aren’t getting the point. Kevin doesn’t think J202 fails at teaching students how to do things associated with every aspect of the field, but rather that it teaches how to do them poorly or simply not well enough. Do you think I remember my one three hour lab about Excel that was filled with the 13 girls in the room on the verge of tears for lack of understanding? Obviously not. I was even a webmaster, received high marks in the class, and I still can’t design a website.
I learned so much more in my 335 class (Steven Walters - Intermediate Reporting) than I did in J202. Not because KC is incompetent or because my TA was fairly awkward (OK. Really awkward), simply because � like Kevin suggests � the class focused on doing ONE thing really well.
Again, I enjoyed J202 to a certain extent. I would say, after 335, it was the most practical class I’ve taken at UW. But at the end of the end of the day, all it did was give me a reason to choose the reporting track and run.
— JCB
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I see a strong future for you Kevin, as editor of a small weekly paper somewhere in a rural town. Narrowminded, unsupported op-ed bashing is often a specialty of those types of papers… in between prep sports, bridge tournement scores and obituaries.
What a whiner.
Good luck. You’ll need it.
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“Herald” style. Is that like “store-brand?”
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When I worked at the Herald, I was always told it was “Web site.”
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Graf six … is the plural of “medium” really “mediums” and not “media’? Am I wrong? Maybe 202 does need a revamp….
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Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. You take one course in the major and then fire off a hasty editorial about how it needs to be changed. You presume to tell us that you know more about journalism curriculum than the professors and administrators? I’d love to hear your plans for revamping the program given prevalent budget constraints. It’s like me telling Bo Ryan that the Badgers need to start scoring more points. He would slap me, say “no shit, moron” and then ask me if I’m going to lace up the sneakers and throw down some dunks or modify the not-so-flashy-but-still-effective swing offense he runs. Your argument is unproductive and insulting to the J-school and your colleagues who work hard, reason thoughtfully and look forward to a successful future in journalism or strategic communication. Your cynicism is frankly disheartening.
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Where to begin? Yes, someone please tell Bo Ryan I’d like to see someone throw down some dunks.
K, now that the important stuff is out of the way… Kevin, when do you hear back on your application to the “well-respected Indiana University School of Journalism?”
I heard their basketball players are allowed to dunk, if that’s worth anything.
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Where to begin? Yes, someone please tell Bo Ryan I’d like to see someone throw down some dunks.
K, now that the important stuff is out of the way… Kevin, when do you hear back on your application to the “well-respected Indiana University School of Journalism?”
I heard their basketball players are allowed to dunk, if that’s worth anything.
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Hey Kevin,
You are aware that potential employers do Google searches for work by their prospective employees?
As one of my graduating students (not UW) said upon reading this article: “Wait until he meets a real editor.” Deal with the workload. Your professors are doing you a favor by making you work hard.
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I can’t believe nobody has mentioned this so far, but you take J202 AFTER you get ACCEPTED into the Journalism School. For anybody who’s applied, getting into the J-School is an honor in itself because IT IS one of the top journalism schools in the country. With that said, a couple of points need to be made:
This explains why so few people get below a B in the class, because they are all willing to put in the work it takes to do well in the class.
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As a transfer student from Indiana University, I completely agree with the author’s point. I had to come to this school for in state tuition and I don’t think any of you got what he is trying to say. He is trying to say taking an overbearing, rigorous course that oversees way too many different topics in 1 semester is NOT a good way to teach future journalists. There are simply different ways of doing things than making people KILL themselves over a 6 credit course, rather than learn it progressively.
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As a transfer student from Indiana University maybe you can tell me what the fuck a hoosier is. Nobody I’ve asked seems to know. In fact, I don’t think ANYONE anywhere knows what it is. How can I take your seriously when you can’t even explain your former school’s mascot?
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Hey, 2:29, shoot me an email if you happen to see this, I’d love to get your thoughts on a couple things. [email protected]
-Kevin
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Mr. Bargnes has stirred up a lot of discussion with this article. The arguments he chooses to make are obviously not well thought out. I was curious enough to see what his other articles looked like, and they too contain arguments that are not thought through.
His opinions must be taken with a grain of salt. He has just finished J202 which means he still has a long way to go. Hopefully he will learn that using the Badger Herald to lash out at those he does not like is not condusive to his education or his future career in journalism.
I was not a journalism student, but from the experiences my journalism friends have had, I can see it is an excellent program. And kudos to the people who have taken advantage of the honor of being accepted into this program.
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This is the kind of writing that gets one accepted to such a “fine” journalism school? No wonder newspapers are in trouble.
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Kevin, as a fellow J-Schooler who went through his own struggles in J202 awhile ago, I have to honestly say you are a dumbass.
If you would have waited to see what happens after J-202, you would have found out that you head off to J-335, which is basically completely focused on writing and reporting.
Then, if you want to learn more about multimedia reporting, you would take J419 the next semester.
In writing such a nearsighted column you have not only made yourself look like a complete moron, but you have also managed to aleniate yourself from the entire journalism department, students and teachers alike.
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The point was that multimedia and extensive reporting experience is now expected of everyone in the field, therefore it should be expected of everyone in the major. I wasn’t talking about what I wanted, more so what needs to be required of everyone in the School.
And don’t worry, I’ve only alienated a few people. Thanks for the comment though! —Kevin
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“And don�t worry, I�ve only alienated a few people.”
You want to bet on that? BTW, this was found to be hilariously pathetic in the Chicago Sun-Times newsroom. We thank you for the laughs.
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Haha. I didn’t realize the Chicago Sun-Times has a bureau in Sun Prairie. Your IP address doesn’t lie as well as you do, bud. -KB
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Keep up the arrogance buddy. I bet you’re a coastie…
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he’s from Detroit
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Premise 1: J202 doesn’t make you write enough. Premise 2: J202 makes you learn programs that are easy to learn. Conclusion: The course is too hard.
Way to be a clown, Kev.
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“Haha. I didn�t realize the Chicago Sun-Times has a bureau in Sun Prairie. Your IP address doesn�t lie as well as you do, bud”
Yeah, even if he weren’t lying about working for the Chicago Sun-Time’s, I’m willing to bet the BH is doing better than that shitty newspaper. There’s a reason Kevin is the Chairman of the Herald.
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Kevin, you look like a dork. That would explain your general unhappiness.