Jason Smathers’ Feb. 25 article titled, “UW community strong enough to face ad, reject it,” is an unfortunate step back for The Badger Herald. Clearly, Smathers wants to maintain the paper’s principles, and he believes the student community can reject the ad at first glance. The most troubling statement I found was, “Any student of this university who views the page (or, perhaps even the link) would recognize his mission as a wholesale rejection of truth and, in turn, dismiss it.”
That is unfortunately incorrect. Many students at Wisconsin have little, if any knowledge about the Holocaust. If they see something that looks legitimate — like Bradley Smith’s website, for example — they might accept it as fact, and the comment board, now at a round 100, has exhibited that problem.
Making things more troublesome are the comments below the article. We’re starting to see more holocaust deniers use The Badger Herald as a platform for their blatantly false and truly offensive rhetoric. Although Smathers no doubt hoped the UW community would reject the Holocaust deniers at first glance, it seems as if students have little to counterbalance the hatred posed on the comment board.
This raises an important question: Is Holocaust denial anti-Semitic? If yes, how could the Herald staff allow any such comments onto the website? How are Holocaust deniers any different from those bashing Jews following the AEPi article? I don’t see much of a discrepancy, and though you might have to look a little bit deeper to see how the two relate, it is not hard to see how the two issues are intertwined.
I was initially somewhat pleased with Smathers’ decision to keep the advertisement up. After all, it was only text, about one square inch on a computer, and didn’t even catch my attention until someone informed me about it. I, like Smathers, hoped the Wisconsin Jewish community would realize the Herald’s quest to strengthen first amendment rights.
But that obviously didn’t happen the way Smathers wanted. Instead of igniting a debate focused on the validity of Smathers’ statements, the Herald has turned into a place where Holocaust deniers can influence a young audience that — unfortunately — has yet to form their own opinions. That, coupled with Bradley Smith’s most recent posting on Youtube, where he commends the Herald for defending his rights, seems to point towards a major backfire for the Herald Board of Directors.
I know every member of the Herald Board of Directors, and I know not a single one of them has an ounce of hatred toward Jews. However, the mere fact they could allow the Herald to make such a terrible mistake is inexcusable. For Smathers to compare the Holocaust to the 9/11 attacks is unfair and irresponsible, and though the Herald has had a history of controversial advertisements, this goes too far. Holocaust denial is no different from racism or sexism, and though Smathers claims the ad isn’t of libelous nature, those who are affected by it would claim quite the opposite.
I don’t think this problem will linger much longer. I will not boycott this newspaper and I will continue to support it when it deserves my support. I am sure that when the advertisement passes so will this setback. It is simply unfortunate that the UW campus’ largest and most successful student newspaper will now permanently exhibit anti-Semitism on its website. That is one stain that is very difficult to remove.
Jonah Braun ([email protected]) is a junior majoring in Hebrew and Semitic Studies. He is also a former Sports Editor of The Badger Herald.




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“Many students at Wisconsin have little, if any knowledge about the Holocaust.” I like to think that the majority of UW students ARE well informed on the Holocaust. We’re a smart bunch for the most part - but like with all things in life, it takes a few rotten eggs to ruin the bunch. I do agree though, this will soon pass.
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I completely agree. I think the vast majority of students at UW are indeed well-informed about the Holocaust. But there clearly is a small population that still have malleable minds on the issue. It’s unfortunate that, for the most part, these are the ones that can have the most damaging effect on the message boards and on the UW community.
—Jonah
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This is stupid! Ten years ago, the ad would have been flat-out rejected. What if someone tried to place an ad advocating that gays be institutionalized, or an ad that advocated invading Canada? OK, invading Canada might be a good idea, since they burned down our White House (kidding). I’m still not convinced that a predominantly liberal campus like UW-Madison would even tolerate something like this. Why are Jews the only exception when it comes to fighting prejudice and bigotry? Most liberals still try to claim that their opposition to “Israeli apartheid” is not an anti-Jewish movement, yet I hear liberals bashing Jews left and right all over the place. Sorry, but I’m not buying the liberal excuse for this kind of hatred.
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side note but unfortunately UW is not as liberal of a campus as we would like to think…things have changed.
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The only thing that’s changed is that conservatives are more vocal, but liberals are still the biggest anti-Semites. Conservatives may be critical about racism, sexism, sexual orientation and ethnicity, but when it comes to Jews and Judaism, conservatives tend to be much more respectful than liberals.
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Baloney. The vast majority of American Jews are liberals, while the vast majority of people telling them they’re going to burn in hell for all eternity because they haven’t converted to a particularly conservative version of Christianity are conservatives. (OT: Can someone explain to me how it’s not a go-straight-to-hell offense for a Christian to say all Jews are going to hell when Jesus — their messiah — was a Jew?)
Jerry Falwell was never particularly “respectful” toward Jews. Brian Bosma, the former Speaker of the Indiana House and a conservative Republican, wasn’t particularly “respectful” regarding anti-Semitism when he said Jews’ opinions don’t matter because Christians outnumber them forty to one in Indiana. There’s nothing “respectful” toward Jews about trying to cram prayer in public schools down our throats, or trying to impose “Christian” values on our laws, or confusing support for Israel with respect for Jews and opposition to anti-Semitism.
In short, claiming that conservatives somehow have a better record than liberals on anti-Semitism is just not true. Ironically, it’s revisionism — not so different from what the Holocaust deniers here are doing. That’s not to say that liberals exactly have a great record either — a pox on both your houses — but you do Jews no favors by denying the truth.
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Holocaust education in primary and high school is HUGE. Proportionally, the schools I grew up attending focused more on the Holocaust and WWII than any other time in History. Pretty much everyone else I know had very similar curriculums. The Holocaust is very much cemented in most UW students brains before they arrive on campus. The so called Holocaust ‘deniers’ are a VERY small minority. While I believe the Jewish community should respond to these hateful individuals, they are NOT representative of the UW student body. ‘Anti-Semite’ comments about AEPi are completely different from those of Holocaust deniers. I think the majority of people who are ‘anti-semite’ are really more ‘anti-East Coast’ — it’s more of a regional conflict than a religious/ethnic conflict. They have not really been exposed to lifestyles outside the midwest and immediately judge people who they view as ‘rich’ and ‘snobby’ (for the record, I don’t have any animosity — many of my good friends are just that ‘type’). Yet I don’t think these same people would deny the Holocaust happened nor deny how horrible it was for Humanity. The logic that the Herald is anti-semitic in running this ad is a fallacy. I stand by the Herald exercising the First Amendment in publishing this disgusting ad (along with the strip club ad…). Jonah, I wish you and Hillel a lot of look at the awareness event tomorrow, not that you’ll need it. I think you’ll have a pretty receptive crowd, since most UW students are definitely aware — and very sympathetic — to the Holocaust.
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I would love to see the various organizations and interests of UW come together for a broader genocide awareness campaign. While the Holocaust was most certainly an atrocity, it is just one of many genocides. Changing it up and also spreading awareness about genocides such as Armenia or Cambodia is just as important (and perhaps more pressing, since they are much less publicized). Or how about Sudan — a genocide that is going on right now? I agree that we must “never forget”, but perhaps focusing ALL of our energies on the past takes our energy away from what’s going on right now. Let’s step up awareness beyond just the Holocaust to show people that atrocities, unfortunately, are just as rampant today as they were during WWII.
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Um, Jonah, don’t you work for the BH?
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not everybody working at the herald has to share the same viewpoint. the ed board doesn’t always have a unanimous consent, and they print the dissenting opinion. its not like republicans and democrats who always band together…
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I’m not an anti-Semite. My grandfather, who I love very much, was a Jewish refugee from Eastern Europe in the 1920s and Jewish traditions are still very much a part of my family. Just having to preface ANY criticism of Israel or free speech advocacy (e.g. this ridiculously over-analyzed Holocaust non-issue) like that to prevent, or at least inhibit, accusations of anti-Semitism is absurd. This paranoid victim-hood narrative that shrieks anti-Semitism at the sight of every criticism or contrary arguement, however mild, does a grave disservice to rational discourse. As Eric Alterman pointed out recently http://www.thenation.com/doc/20100315/alterman these sorts of accusations say much more about the accuser than the purported anti-Semite himself. Holocaust denial is not technically anti-Semitic and therefore is not the same a racism and sexism. Denying the Holocaust is essentially calling a lot of people liars, some of them Jews, many of them not. It is revisionist history that usually does have anti-Semitic purposes but is not in itself anti-Semitic. Although I certainly understand how convenient it is to draw that relationship. I thought Smather’s 9/11 comparison was appropriate in the context. What is it exactly you didn’t like or understand? Lastly, you must be delusional if you really believe the vast majority of students on this campus don’t know a whole lot about the Holocaust - last time I checked, 20th century history was still taught in high school. All of us are capable of calling bullshit what it is. Occasional offense is the price one pays for living in a free society, get used to it and stop whining. -SS
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it’s not about the anti-semitism—those who ignore/deny history are condemned to repeat it. when the middle line on the holocaust discourse is shifted from how to best teach it to whether or not it existed, it not only is reprehensible to all victims of the holocaust and all jews, romas, gays, etc… but it also enables future genocide. as we saw, the comments about this advertisement shifted from whether or not it was disrespectful or a free speech issue to the vailidity of the holocaust. holocaust denial should not be illegal, but a campus newspaper should not facilitate dialgoue where the existence of a horrific past is called into question. the advertisement and subsequent defense did just this.
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BH has a rancid history of supporting Holocaust denial. Recall, serial terrorism-apologist Kyle Szarzinski’s support of the noxious Holocaust denier, Norman Finkelstein. http://badgerherald.com/oped/2007/09/11/israellobbycensors.php
Don’t be naive’, Jonah.
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Link correction: http://badgerherald.com/oped/2007/09/11/israellobbycensors.php http://badgerherald.com/oped/2007/09/13/thefinkin_finkelst.php
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This site doesn’t allow citing their work… it automatically deletes “underline” font. It’s a not too clever way to hide their tracks.
Just google “Finkelstein” and “Szarzynsky” (or click on “Szarzynsky” in the IP header).
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Norman Finkelstein is not a holocaust denier. Although pro-Israeli apologists would like to label him as one, because he questions the Israeli apartheid like treatment of Palestinians.
Ju
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Your obnoxious denials of Norman Finkelstein�s Holocaust denial are unsupported by the EVIDENCE of his sordid record.
Finkelstein is a disciple of the discredited historian and Holocaust denier David Irving, whom he considers an authoritative scholar. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2204
Don�t be a hate-monger your whole life.
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BH provided hate-mongers a stage to spit their anti-Semitic bigotry. That action crossed the line of incitement.
Last Spring, The Diamondback (UMaryland) covered their campus Muslim Student Association hosting of infamous Holocaust denier, Norman Finkelstein, during PassOver. http://www.diamondbackonline.com/commenting-on-a-crisis-1.277458
A month later, the enraged father of one campus students marched into the DC Holocaust museum to gun down innocents. Only the intervention of security guards� one whom died heroically in the line of duty� prevented an awful slaugher.
Responsible journalism should not facilitate Holocaust-denial and anti-Semitic bigotry. BH is inciting violence.
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This is the second time I’ve seen this commenter say this completely erroneous claim, but because I believe in countering lies with truth, let me repeat myself. Norman Finkelstein is not a Holocaust denier—he is a strong critic of Israel. Learn to separate the two and not use lies for political gain. His parents are Holocaust survivors and his entire family beyond them was exterminated by the Nazis. Look at this quote:
“Every single member of my family on both sides was exterminated in the Holocaust, and it’s precisely and exactly because of the lessons my parents taught me and my two siblings that I will not be silent when Israel commits? its crimes against the Palestinians.” -Norman Finkelstein
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4&feature=PlayList&p=0F14A9B8DA1054D5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=43
He might be crazy, angry, and you may not agree with his points, but this is NOT Holocaust-denial.
Also, one last quote:
“The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering is a book published in 2000 by Norman G. Finkelstein, that argues that the American Jewish establishment exploits the memory of the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel. According to Finkelstein, this “Holocaust industry” has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust. Finkelstein’s parents were both Holocaust survivors who had been inmates of concentration camps.”
In short, quit spreading lies. I’m sure you’re just a Hasbara-type, paid to spread lies on college campus’ newspaper comment boards, but just as people can easily be manipulated by ads denying the Holocaust, as Jonah argues, they can also be easily be manipulated by the bullshit you repeatedly write on articles pertaining to Israel and Jewish-related stuff that is far from the truth.
-Steve Horn
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Your obnoxious denials of Norman Finkelstein�s Holocaust denial are unsupported by the EVIDENCE of his sordid record.
Finkelstein is a disciple of the discredited historian and Holocaust denier David Irving, whom he considers an authoritative scholar. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2204
Don’t be a hate-monger your whole life.
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Once again, the EVIDENCE of Finkelstein inciting the Holocaust Museum shooter is undeniable. The shooter�s son cites Finkelstein as his murdering father�s inspiration.
Diamondback (UMD): �The sins of the father: Holocaust Museum shooter�s son speaks out� http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2795/the-sins-of-the-father-holocaust-museum-shooter-s-son-speaks-out-1.276728
��James spent his time reading scholars such as David Irving and Norman Finkelstein, who question the scope of the Holocaust�, Erik said.�
And who do we find inciting anti-Semitism during Passover at University of Maryland? …Norman Finkelstein http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2795/commenting-on-a-crisis-1.277458
Don’t be a Holocaust-denial toady your whole life.
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You apparently have no interest in watching that video or looking into the content of what Finkelstein argues and says, which I enclosed in my previous extended comment. Did you not take the time to watch the video I sent you or have you never read his book “The Holocaust Industry”? I assume you haven’t, but still like to spread lies about the material anyway. People like you will continuously slander and defame guys like Finkelstein without actually ever reading his book or listening to what he actually says.
Unlike you, I did read the links you sent me. I have a few comments about them:
a.) First of all, I’ll quote Finkelstein on David Irving. You have totally blown what he’s said and his sentiments out of proportion and completely out of the context they deserve. He is not a “disciple” of David Irving, but even Raul Hilberg, one of the preeminent Holocaust scholars in world, agrees that Irving has a place in a free society. Finkelstein doesn’t consider him an “authoritative scholar,” so don’t point people to a website that exists to defame people and give people totally erroneous facts (Discover the Networks). Here’s what Finkelstein, IN HIS OWN WORDS, says about Irving in an interview:
“Questioner: It has been said of you, intended as a compliment, that you are the “Jewish David Irving.” I would agree with that. Do you, are you proud of that characterisation, do you agree with it, do you take it as a compliment?
Finkelstein: Ahhh… I don’t know really, honestly, how to answer that question. With all due respect, I think that’s a stupid question so I can’t answer it. [Audience laughs] I can’t. What do you want? [laughing, clapping]… Ok, if you ask me what I think of David Irving… listen, young man, I can give you the politically correct answer and say “he’s terrible, he’s this and he’s that.” Personally, I don’t like the fellow. I think he is a Nazi. However, I have to be fair. And I want you to listen. Fairness means: A) I’m not an authority on the topic on which he writes. Mostly on military history, [audience noise, talking] on the German side, during WW2. Number two, [audience noise, talking] historians who are authorities on him have given mixed ratings. Gordon Craig, one of the leading historians on Germany in the US who writes regularly for the New York Review of Books, Gordon Craig wrote, “his contributions are indespensible.” I can’t change that. I cannot say Gordon Craig is wrong. You know why I can’t do it? Because I’m humble enough to say: I-Don’t-Know. John Keagan, one of the leading military historians in the UK, when he testified in the Irving Lipstad [spelling?] trial, he testified on his side, on Irving’s side, as being a good historian. So I can only report to you what other historians have said. And so in the book, in the Holocaust Industry, I wrote that Gordon Craig said that his contributions, his meaning Irving’s, are indespensible and that became “Finkelstein says Irving is an indespensable historian.” Well, I didn’t say it. And I just don’t know. What I do know is that, at this point, I totally here.. in this point… and I hope you will listen, I totally agree with John Stweart Mill. I teach Mill every quarter of whenever I teach. I love Mill’s On Liberty. One of the things Mill says in On liberty, he says that the most useful person in society, in trying to uncover ideas, is the devil’s advocate because the devil’s advocate is always trying to find holes in your argument and trying to find errors in your facts. Now, the devil’s advocate is a devil. That’s why he or she is called a devil’s advocate but he or she serves the useful purpose of trying to find errors in your reasoning, errors in your facts. That is to say, as Mill puts it, he or she, even if he or she is a devil, he or she is trying to help you find the truth. Now, may be his or her motives are evil, incidious, malicious or wicked but it makes no difference because by looking for errors in your arguments he or she is helping you — unwittingly no doubt — but helping you to find truth. And so I think, and I can imagine how it’s gonna be distorted, I think people like David Irving serve a good function in society. You know, I had… a few months ago for a film I was making .. with a British documentary, I went to visit Raul Hilberg, the leading authority in the world on the Nazi Holocaust, and I talked to him of this whole issue of the Holocaust deniers because Hilberg says “I think they’re useful, they’re good.” That’s the world’s leading authority on the topic. And I asked him, “well, how are they useful to you?” And he says “you know why they’re useful?” he says “they ask all the questions that everyone else takes for granted, that nobody else thinks to ask.” So he says “everybody knows,” he gives me an example, “that in the gas chambers they usef Zyclon B and then along come these Holocaust deniers and they say: ‘well, we tested this Zyclon B. it can’t kill humans. it can kill vermin but not humans.’” And it was an interesting point, and then Hilberg says: “well, it turns out they used Zyclon B but they couldn’t use it in its pristine form, they had to mix it.” They asked an interesting question. And he says: “I think they seve a useful purpose.” And I thought to myself, “if the world’s leading authority bar none on the Nazi Holocaust is not terrified of these Holocaust deniers and isn’t out to supress them, who am I to say they shouldn’t have the right to speak?” And that’s all I said and I’ll stick absolutely by that. Everyone… you know, Mill says at one point in On Liberty, he says “even if the world is in the right, dissentions still have… dissentions — those who disagree — still probably have something to contribute to truth, a small piece.” I think that’s true. And that’s my view on the topic. I think among… [audience applause] among rational people that won’t even be considered controversial. To let the devil’s advocate speak… who would even challenge that? Again, it’s one of the peculiarities of discussion when we come to this topic. The level of mental hysteria it evokes, is really terrifying.
So, your “evidence” (i.e. a soundbite taken totally out of its actual context) is incorrect. But that’s what people from organizations like the one you either represent or idolize do, I guess.
b.) Don’t call me a “hate-monger” or a “Holocaust-denier.” Similar to Finkelstein, my grandfather is a Holocaust survivor from Poland. I agree that it was a horrendous event beyond belief (I have had numerous discussions with him about the atrocities and about the horrors of his childhood), but the fact that people like you, filled with so much hate for dissenting views and criticism of Israel will use the Holocaust for your own political gain, to the point of spreading lies on campus newspaper comment boards, is repulsive. I’ve seen you put stuff on other articles, too, and I’m sure that’s either what you get paid for, or do out of your own “good will,” but I will not be silent when I see hate-filled lies and the exploitation of people like my grandfather’s memory used to promote disingenuous, dangerous groups like Discover the Networks for their own political gains.
c.) You’re falling into dangerous territory here on the fact that the Holocaust Museum shooter read Finkelstein’s stuff and that lead him to do what he did. Many books, movies, and other media have motivated hate-filled people to murder others. That doesn’t mean Finkelstein is at fault for the fact that a sociopath was motivated to do something so horrible. A couple examples: Mark David Chapman loved the book A Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Sallinger. Does that make Sallinger responsible for “incitement”? The Supreme Court case WI v. Mitchell is also based on this incitement logic:
“The respondent, Todd Mitchell, was with a group of other African American individuals in an apartment complex in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Members of this group were discussing the film Mississippi Burning; in particular, a scene in which a white man beat a young black boy who was praying. According to the facts, undisputed by the respondent, in the briefs filed in lower courts, the group had discussed the scene indoors while drinking, and later moved outside the apartment complex. Outside they were joined by Mitchell and further discussed the scene. Seeing that everyone is enraged, Mitchell asked the group, “Do you all feel hyped up to move on some white people?”
Looking across the street, Mitchell and the group spot Gregory Reddick, a white fourteen-year old, walking home from a nearby pizza parlor. Mitchell reportedly turned to the group and remarked, “You all want to fuck somebody up? There goes a white boy; go get him.” Mitchell counted to three and then pointed left and right, signaling that they should encircle him. Ten of them then took off after Reddick, most running directly at him. One person in the group kicked Reddick, knocking him to the ground. Several attackers then surrounded Reddick. They kicked, punched, and stomped on him for over five minutes. The beating left Reddick unconscious on the ground, and one of the attackers remarked that they had killed him. Another then took Reddick’s British Knights sneakers and showed them off later at his apartment complex with Mitchell. The police found Reddick unconscious a short while later. He remained in a coma for four days in the hospital; the record indicates he fully recovered all physical injuries.”
Examples like these abound. You are lacking in legal knowledge of what incitement is and by your logic, if anyone says anything or makes any movie or writes any book that might somehow motivate someone else to take an action like Von Brunn, then it’s all their fault. The First Amendment just doesn’t work that way. I suggest learning more about this issue, as well. On it’s face, your logic falls flat.
d.) Lastly, criticism of Israel’s actions is not anti-semitism, plain and simple. This is just a PR tactic that people like you use to stifle any criticism of Israel. I will not belabor this point, but I will close with an excerpt from the very man you have attempted to slander—Norman Finkelstein—in an interview from Amy Goodman’s “Democracy Now!” from Aug. 30, 2006:
“Every time Israel comes under international pressure, as it did recently because of the war crimes committed in Lebanon, it steps up the claim of anti-Semitism, and all of Israel�s critics are anti-Semitic. 1974, the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, puts out a book called The New Anti-Semitism. 1981, the Anti-Defamation League puts out a book, The New Anti-Semitism. And then, again in 2000, Abraham Foxman and people like Phyllis Chesler, they put out these books called The New Anti-Semitism. So the use of the charge �anti-Semitism� is pretty conventional whenever Israel comes under attack, and frankly it has no content whatsoever nowadays.
If you open up, like, Phyllis Chesler�s book, The New Anti-Semitism, she says Jewish feminists are anti-Semites, NPR is anti-Semitic, BBC is anti-Semitic, Los Angeles Times is anti-Semitic, New York Times is anti-Semitic, Washington Post is anti-Semitic. Everybody is anti-Semitic. The term is devoid of any content. Anyone who ever criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic.
What does the evidence show? There has been good investigation done, serious investigation. All the evidence shows there�s no � there�s no evidence at all for a rise of a new anti-Semitism, whether in Europe or in North America. The evidence is zero. And, in fact, there�s a new book put out by an Israel stalwart. His name is Walter Laqueur, a very prominent scholar. It�s called The Changing Face of Anti-Semitism. It just came out, 2006, from Oxford University Press. He looks at the evidence, and he says no. There�s some in Europe among the Muslim community, there�s some anti-Semitism, but the notion that in the heart of European society or North American society there�s anti-Semitism is preposterous. And in fact � or no, a significant rise in anti-Semitism is preposterous.”
I hate to have to write so much, but felt it necessary after reading such garbage on your part. Thanks for your time.
-Steve Horn
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Correct. Sane folks have ZERO interest in watching that video or looking into the content of what Finkelstein argues and says. Finkelstein is a perfect specimen of the self-loathing Leftist trying to explain and justify his OCD. If other Leftists feel compelled to wallow in the intellectual cesspool with Finkelstein, then feel free to soil yourselves. Just don’t expect decent people of conscience to join you.
The EVIDENCE of Finkelstein’s anti-Semitism presented at DiscoverTheNetworks.org (click on “Anti-Fink” above) is thorough and damning. If you choose to accept the Fink’s specious denials of his Holocaust-denial, then that’s your problem.
Rational folks will consider “Abraham H. Foxman” (hyperlinked above), National Director of the Anti-Defamation League:
“Jewish organizations have been fighting anti-Semitism and opposing bigotry since long before the State of Israel was born. Yet, who would subscribe to the notion that anti-Semitism is an invention of powerful and media-savvy American Jewish organizations, when Jews are depicted on Arab satellite TV as ritual murderers who literally drink the blood of their victims, when newspapers serialize the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and when Mein Kampf tops the best-seller lists in the Arab world? Well, an anti-Semite might. So would Norman Finkelstein, whose obsessive hatred of Israel brings him to about the same place.”
Mr. Horn should feel free to spit another short novella as a paean to Finkelstein’s unique brand of anti-Semitism. Who knows, it may prove therapeutic.
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Mr. Horn clearly has trouble distinguishing fact from fiction. The works of fiction Horn cites are just that— FICTION. Those inspired to act violently to FICTION are indeed delusional.
Conversely, Finkelstein presents his Holocaust-denial conspiracies as FACT. Moreover, he is entertained by many in Leftist wacademia as a “scholar.” His incitement should not be regarded by responsible academics as “free” speech— any more than Islamo-fascist videotapes are “free” speech.
Finkelstein’s brand of hateful lies (masquerading as “scholarship”) make him complicit in inciting hate-mongers to anti-Semitic violence— including (as the EVIDENCE above demonstrated) the Holocaust Museum shooter.
Please don’t continue to dishonor Holocaust sufferings by cheerleading on behalf of the rank anti-Semitism of Norman Finkelstein.
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Anti-Fink is just one more of those pro-Israel hacks who will smear anybody who questions Israeli apartheid. Now it looks like the latest smear is trying to tie the Holocaust museum shooter to Finkelestein. How so, because that 90 year old man may have read or hear Finkelstein.
How silly and weak this is. However it shows the extent to which the pro-Israeli apologists will go to smear anyone.
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Once again, the EVIDENCE of Finkelstein inciting the Holocaust Museum shooter is undeniable. The shooter�s son cites Finkelstein as his murdering father�s inspiration.
Diamondback (UMD): �The sins of the father: Holocaust Museum shooter�s son speaks out� http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2795/the-sins-of-the-father-holocaust-museum-shooter-s-son-speaks-out-1.276728
��James spent his time reading scholars such as David Irving and Norman Finkelstein, who question the scope of the Holocaust�, Erik said.�
And who do we find inciting anti-Semitism (on Passover) at University of Maryland? …Norman Finkelstein http://www.diamondbackonline.com/2.2795/commenting-on-a-crisis-1.277458
Don�t be a Holocaust-denial toady your whole life.
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Evidence of inciting the Holocaust Museum id undeniable ? What a piece of crock. If you have such evidence why wasn’t he indicted. It is a crime to incite violence in this country. Oh, wait the “evidence” is the latest smear tactics by pro-Israeli apologists.
Based on this level of “evidence”, there is more “evidence” that organizations like ADL and AIPAC have supported the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes in Palestine.
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Fink was never indicted for incitement because his disciple never went to trial. His disciple went on a shooting rampage, then dutifully died in prison awaiting trial for his Holocaust museum rampage. But it was Finkelstein’s Passover hate-rally at UMaryland that clearly pushed Von Brunn over the edge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnitedStatesHolocaustMemorialMuseum_shooting
Don’t be a toady to Fink your whole life.
Own it, Leftist-fascists.
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What perverse logic. You can be indicted for incitement even if the person who you incited is dead. But then of course that does not serve Israeli apologists and their deceitful propaganda.
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The Holocaust Museum shooter’s death leaves only the court of public opinion to censure Fink. But the Leftist impulse to defend Fink’s indefensible hate-mongering is perversity on stilts. Fink should be condemned by people of conscience for his hate-mongering. Instead, Leftists continue to perversely embrace Fink’s (alleged) “scholarship” as worthy of consideration. Those actions are also an indictment of their moral and ethical failures.
But that’s to be expected from Leftists who proudly goosestep alongside rank anti-Semites during their Kristalnaght-style gutter riots (EVIDENCE hyperlinked at “HALL OF SHAME” above).
Own it, Leftist-fascists.
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Horn had the temerity to climb up on his hind legs cite Amy Goodman of DemocracyNow! as a credible source defending Norman Finkelstein.
That’s the same Leftist-fascist goon arrested during Kristalnaght-style gutter rioting during the 2008 RNC convention.
Horn’s defense is a further indictment of his fascist leanings.
Own it, Leftist-fascist.
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It should not escape notice that a Democrat, Bush-hating, 9/11 Troofer conspiracist shot up the Pentagon last week.
Publishing crap-pot conspiracy theories is not a harmless academic exercise— it incites Leftist-fascist extremism.
Knock it off.
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And a Republican committed murder at the Holocaust museum a few months ago, and another just crashed a plane into an IRS building in Texas last month. Can we all agree that lunatics exist on both sides and focus on fighting the Holocaust revisionists?
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LIAR. The Holocaust museum shooter was a Leftist-fascist registered-Democrat who also targeted the “neo-con” Weekly Standard. http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/11/right-wing-holocaust-museum-shooter-may-have-targeted-the-weekly-standard/
The IRS attacker was also Leftist-fascist who’s anti-Bush rhetoric and screeching about health care was inspired by “the communist creed.” http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/18/wapo-columnist-that-insane-pilot-sounds-kind-of-like-a-tea-partier-huh/
They’re all yours… own it, Leftist-fascists.
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Incitement isn’t harmless.
Anti-Semitic hate-mongers assault UC-Berkeley Jewish girl; http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136407
Enough already.
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Who even looks at the advertising anyways?
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Are you serious right now? Newspapers ARE advertising. That’s it. Also, we seem to be forgetting that this ad was posted online. Meaning, of course, it extended far beyond the UW community. If it had only run in the print version, Smathers’ argument about an intelligent readership may hold more water (although I would still disagree). But the Internet is endless, people. And if you think the only people reading the Herald are UW students, well I hope you’re right, but doubt it.
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It is embarrassing for our culture and our Euro-ethos that we would revert to oppression and imprisonment for heroic figures like Ernst Zundel and many others who are scientists, engineers, lawyers and professors. Which powerful ethnic group is responsible for the campaign since the 1980s to make it a crime to question the claims of the Holocaust. Is it the Norwegians? Oops! If I tell you the TRUTH, I may go to jail under some hate law.
I wish to express my outrage that the Holocaust, unlike any other historical event, is not subject to critical examination. Furthermore I deplore the fact that many so-called democratic states have laws that criminalize an examination and understanding of the Holocaust. It is my position that the veracity of Holocaust assertions should be determined in the marketplace of scholarly discourse and not in our legislatures bodies and courthouses.
Peace.
Michael Santomauro Editorial Director Call anytime: 917-974-6367 [email protected] Amazon’s: DEBATING THE HOLOCAUST: A New Look At Both Sides by Thomas Dalton
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The problem with comparing the Holocaust to other historical events about which we have a significant amount of scholarly discourse is that there is substantial documentary proof, by way of video recordings, audio recordings, photographs, and living survivors (and perpetrators). Unlike, say, the spanish inquisition, we have significantly better recorded information, we have substantial remaining evidence (i.e. the camps, human remains, and Nazi documents tallying the carnage). It’s not a matter of “historical debate” that it occurred, it’s been less than 65 years since the last camp was liberated.
Jonah, As to antisemitism, I don’t like the knee-jerk reaction the Jewish community has to holocaust deniers, calling them antisemitic. I don’t think that’s appropriate, since it’s not that they are hostile to Jews in particular, though I’m sure many holocaust deniers are, but rather that they are people who seek to undercut clear evidence in favor of perverted facts that comport more closely with their world view. It’s functionally similar to people who challenge evolution, 9/11, or Obama’s US citizenship. These are all people who, for one reason or another, choose to take the obvious and twist it to comport with their views/feelings, rather than reflect on their personal beliefs in light of the obvious.
In terms of the Ad, I’m saddened that a newspaper speaking for an institution of scholarship and learning would allow this sort of thing. Free speech is sacrosanct, and the rights of holocaust deniers (and “birthers” and so on) to air their opinions are rightly protected, but that doesn’t mean the paper needs to or should lend any legitimacy to the crazies.
-Nate
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Ernst Zundel is not a hero, he’s a liar and a bigot. And so are his lapdogs.
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I totally agree with my dog Jonah on this subject. Just because you watched Schindler’s List in your world war two class in high school doesn’t make you an accredited scholar on the subject of the Nazi Holocaust. Free speech is a very important thing. The BH since the 60’s has had a long history of defending people�s rights to free speech. That being said I truly believe that the badger herald would be in the right for allowing an editorial on the subject. Let me state however, an advertisement normally suggests some sort of cooperation with the news paper and the party buying the rights to space in there news. This cooperation constantly flirts with the line of support and blind equality of patrons. An example of where a newspaper can print an advertisement for something they personally don’t officially back is the publishing of an add for a political issue. But it is when the newspaper prints an advertisement for a political group that spreads hateful insensitive FALSE knowledge on a HOLOCAUST still fresh in the minds of our grandparents that any level of cooperation between the advertisement and newspaper is absolutely unacceptable. On the subject of free speech I always applied the situation in question to one of the most famous liberalists (not the same as “liberal”) quote of all time. “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”-Voltaire. The BH got lost somewhere between “defending” and “disapproving”. This is normally an easy distinction but it seems that there was a lapse of judgment in allowing dollars coming from a hate group to print the paper in your hands. That being said it was a mistake and I will continue to support the BH so long s the next issue doesn�t have a puppy stompers add.
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“�Anti-Semite� comments about AEPi are completely different from those of Holocaust deniers.”
Really? I haven’t been able to tell the difference.
“I think the majority of people who are �anti-semite� are really more �anti-East Coast�”
Then why don’t they just stick with being anti-East Coast and leave religion out of it?
“The logic that the Herald is anti-semitic in running this ad is a fallacy.”
After you spent two sentences proving otherwise?
“Jonah, I wish you and Hillel a lot of look at the awareness event tomorrow…”
Thanks! We Jews need all the look we can get. And even bad look is better than no look at all.
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Jonah Braun might want to give fellow UW Madison students a little more credit for their intelligence. Madison is one of the top academic schools in America. Students attending are probably ranked in the top 5% of their high school class. I think these students can figure out for themselves whether Bradley Smith is posting lies and fabrications on his website or truthful data.
I had assumed that holocaust revisionists were people who had been misled when I began researching the holocaust 7 years ago. I certainly did not take them serious.
I was mistaken.
What I found was the revisionist community is painstakingly focused on the truth in holocaust research.
The truth is not hard to find. For example, the ground at Treblinka ( Poland) either holds the remains of 870,000 bodies as Holocaust believers say, or the ground does not, as revisionists assert.
Perhaps a team of holocaust historians from America could scan the grounds with GPR ( ground penetrating radar) and let the world know what they find.
The curator of the Auschwitz museum has already admitted to the world that the building shown to and represented as a gas chamber to the public, was rebuilt in 1948. If that is not deception, I don’t know what is.
Allow me to give an example to show how illogical the contemporary holocaust story is. Imagine Canada, Mexico, and the USA were under the control of an America dictator. Imagine this dictator decided all Irish persons needed to be gassed or killed. Would it make sense to establish 6 camps in Newfoundland ( 3 of the camps being less than 10 acres in size ) and have all these persons with Irish ancestry transported to that remote location by train, and then gassed in some makeshift old building? It would not be carried out like that.
If you take the time to listen to the testimony of self identified eyewitnesses, you will see their stories make no sense.
Abram Bomba is a self identified eyewitness to the alleged Treblinka gassings. He says he was a barber who gave men and women a haircut before they were gassed.
In a 12X 14 square foot room, he says 16 barbers would cut the hair of the detainees about to be gassed. There would be 140 detainees in one room, roughly 168 square feet.
After the haircut, the barbers left for 2 minutes while the people got gassed, and then in a few minutes all the bodies were removed and another gassing of hundreds took place.
Except, that scenario is impossible.
The friend to revisionism will always be science. Science says 870,000 bodies cannot just vanish. Science says if you walk into a room full of cyanide, you will die. Experts say these rooms would need to be aired for 24 hours or longer to be safe for humans to enter)
I suggest the ardent believers begin to examine what the revisionist scholars have to say, and stop the petty name calling, which is seen by most as an attempt to silence debate, silence research and silence the truth.
For the record I am not a part of any group, nor have I been in the past.
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Please do research before you start spounting that this “makes no sense” and that something is “impossible.” Heck, start with the sources cited on the Wikipedia page and you can eventually get to original records. Among other things, Treblinka used carbon monoxide (not cyanide) and death camps were placed in far off country areas so they could be secluded and hidden.
I’m guessing your favorite teen pop group is Prussian Blue.
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“Allow me to give an example to show how illogical the contemporary holocaust story is. Imagine Canada, Mexico, and the USA were under the control of an America dictator. Imagine this dictator decided all Irish persons needed to be gassed or killed. Would it make sense to establish 6 camps in Newfoundland ( 3 of the camps being less than 10 acres in size ) and have all these persons with Irish ancestry transported to that remote location by train, and then gassed in some makeshift old building? It would not be carried out like that.”
If the Irish lived throughout the country with no major population centers near Newfoundland, that’d be pretty bizarre. However, it would make a ton of sense to move all the Irish into a deathmcamp in Newfoundland if the dictator had created a province designed to hold the undesirables near there.
Like Nazi Germany did with the General Government in Poland. Which Hitler promised the Governor-General, Hans Frank, would be “judenfrei” first of all the Nazi-controlled lands.
The majority of the Jews who were brought to death camps were from Poland/General Government and the surrounding countries. And Wilhelm, you are completely correct! It wasn’t the case in areas too far away, for example, Ukraine or Latvia, during Barbarossa. In those situations, the Einsatzgruppen simply led massive pogroms and slaughtered millions by firing squad.
Your denunciation holds NO water.
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This is ridiculous. ALL the evidence shows that the revisionists — those people you claim are committed to the truth — are liars. ALL the evidence shows that the Holocaust happened, that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews and other people they didn’t like for no reason other than that the Nazis were a bunch of genocidal bigots.
That’s who you’re defending, wilhelm — genocidal bigots and the people who applaud them while telling the world that they didn’t actually commit the horrific crimes they absolutely did commit.
So congratulations, wilhelm. You’re officially the worst person in the world for today.
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Hey Badger Herald, I’m a little curious. There are at least half a dozen other local newspapers here in Madison. Do you think they might have printed the ad? Do you think maybe they would have faced the same fallout if they did? Did you honestly think that because you are the Badger Herald that you could print the ad and not catch any flack over it? What makes you so immune from criticism?
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Dude, the Herald didn’t think it was immune from criticism. Not only has the paper been through this kind of thing before,Smathers’ response shows he expected a lot of flak. Do some research before you speak.
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1:48PM, they obviously DID think they were immune. They thought they could get away with it and no one would challenge them. Well, lots of people did challenge them. Their decision to run the ad and defend that decision is inexcusable. And so is your lame attempt to defend the BH.
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This is the same BH that published their manifesto on Iraqi terrorists’ “right” to murder American soldiers. http://badgerherald.com/oped/2007/09/25/iraqiinsurgentshav.php
The BH has no scrupples. They work in a moral gutter.
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The reality of anti-Semitism and its shadowy place in society is the very reason that these kinds of actions must be placed at the forefront of the conflict. Throught history, anti-Semitism has moved from state-supported to culturally accepted to present day, where we are global citizens living in completely different cultures with varied opinions on the issure of anti-Semitism. One would expect that informed citizens in America would know to reject outright any insinuations of group hatred and unfounded religious prejudice. However, we do live in a world where, everyday, other cultures clamor for the death of Jews and Israeli citizens. And while it is certainly true that there is a difference between an inability to understand “east coast culture” and anti-Semitism, now is not the time to nitpick and excuse this kind of behavior. When Holocaust deniers claim that the mass murder of 12 million people, 6 million of them Jewish, never happened, this is not “anti-East coast”. It is anti-Semitism, plain and simple, and it should not be tolerated nor given tacit credibility. The same can be said for thousands of other instances, because when people march through the streets of Ramallah and Gaza City and Tehran screaming for death unto Israelis and the forcing of Jews into the Mediterranean, that is not just “anti-Israeli” sentiment, it’s a clarion call for all who hate, and it most definitely is anti-Semitism.
And so, when an instance such as this creates strife on an educated campus like our own, we must overcome the differences of opinion and battle hatred together. I do not believe that this campus in uninformed, nor that they are looking for ways around blatant anti-Semitism, but the best way to triumph over intolerance is to show those watching that we do know wrong from right, and that intolerance anywhere is an insult to justice anywhere.
Let these events serve as a reminder that hatred exists and that we must do all that we can to eradicate these heinous views, and let us all do our best to create a world where, God willing, we won’t need to hurl insults on the school newspaper’s message board.
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“Instead of igniting a debate focused on the validity of Smathers� statements, the Herald has turned into a place where Holocaust deniers can influence a young audience that � unfortunately � has yet to form their own opinions.”
I honestly believe that overwhelming majority of the Herald’s readers have already formed their own opinions on the Holocaust (e.g. IT HAPPENED). I don’t think that a “young audience” will have difficulty dismissing such blatant slander as this. In middle school and high school I was worried about DESENSITIZATION toward the Holocaust because we were educated on it almost every single year. I don’t think you are giving students enough credit, it takes a lot for someone to dismiss mounds and mounds and mounds of evidence pointing to the the fact that, yes, the Holocaust did happen.
The Jewish communities response here at Madison has, in my opinion, been an overreaction. Why even respond to a provocation artist like Bradley Smith? And if this has anything to do with comments like those on the AEPi article then you are, in fact, having a holocaust rally at the behest of internet Trolls.
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“Madison is one of the top academic schools in America.”
By whose standards? Hey, I could go to a junior college in a small town and find students smarter than the ones here. Try running the ad in a campus newspaper at a college in a small town and see how fast you get chased out of town.
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Jason Smathers just shot himself in the foot. By calling attention and giving legitimacy to an ad that was hard to notice in the first place, he hoped to spark a controversy that would enhance the BH’s readership. If the backlash from the ad’s acceptance turns into outright rejection of the BH, he has certainly done his paper a disservice.
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Oops, almost forgot the political hit pieces on faculty and letting a freshman who knew nothing about the underlying subject write something on a complex First Amendment & legal issue (CCAP open records).
Oh, and using the paper to stir up a lynch mob against the Nitty Gritty for its owner’s political activities. That was a high water mark of quality journalism as well.
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People who elect to believe 6,000,000 jews were gassed in gas chambers in the Second World War have every right to that belief.
Based on 7 years of research, I do not believe that 6,000,000 Jews were gassed at the hands of Hitler. I do believe as many as 300,000 Jews may have died in concentration camps during World War 2, along with millions of others.
I do think it is important to have an open mind on this matter, and if there was some forensic evidence that I could review that established that 6,000,000 Jewish persons were gassed by the Germans I am interested in seeing it.
I am not interested in hearing people, who are selling a book, talk about their personal encounter with Dr. Mengele.
Why is it as soon as the discussion turns to the details of this event, out come the insults.
I think we can all agree the destruction of 12,000,000 people is hard to fathom, but if it did take place, there must be massive burial pits or graves somewhere and records to support millions of bodies that were cremated.
Fortunately, there are survivors who have told us EXACTLY where these burial pits are.
No need to dig up anything, just use GPR units to scan the ground.
There is no anti-Semitism involved in a forensic investigation into this matter.
To the contrary, it makes me think the persons who most object to a forensic investigation might be fearful of the results.
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Ah, yes, another antisemite saying “it’s not antisemitic to hate Jews and lie about murdering them.”
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One thing about these Holocaust deniers that doesn’t add up. They’re constantly denying that a whole 6 million Jews were murdered, but I don’t hear them denying how many homosexuals, communists, trade unionists, Catholics, etc., were murdered. They only question the fate of the Jewish victims. Why the selectivity? What is it about these other groups that Holocaust deniers don’t even want to talk about what happened to them? Anyone?
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Jason Smathers has opened up debate on a topic that
holocaust believers insist must not be debated.
Like it or not, historical revisionism is a part of history.
The more people insist this one chapter of WW2 be closed for good, the more it will prompt inquiry.
I have discusssed this topic with well over 500 highly educated teachers, scholars, judges, lawyers, doctors, and even writers during the past 5-6 years and nearly all of them have agreed with my thesis that the traditional holocaust story, makes absolutely no sense.
President Ronald Reagan used to say,trust but verify.
If holocaust believers want others to trust their version, let the historians, revisionists and scholars verify the forensic evidence! You can’t have it both ways.
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Leave it to a Holocaust revisionist to ignore all the evidence that proves he and his kind are liars and bigots and claim that the evidence doesn’t exist.
Leave it to a Holocaust revisionist to claim that things that have been proven true repeatedly and beyond any shadow of a doubt are lies.
Leave it to a Holocaust revisionist to cry “conspiracy!” when shouted down for promoting bigotry.
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I never heard of any Catholics claiming they had relatives gassed in Auschwitz. Saint Edith Stein was a nun who died from Typhus. Father Maximillian Kolbe died from starvation.
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I have only recently become aware of this debate, and I do have a few comments. I’d like to suggest that the first amendment argument is a little ingenuous. Let’s have a little honest here for a second: How long would the following ad stay online? “The slavery question: the power of taboo” or try this one: “the myth of japanese internment camps- why can we not discuss both sides of the issue” How about “the question of native americans…” I think you see where I’m going with this. The discourse of israeli palestinian conflict in the liberal left has moved (very often with good reason) towards denouncement of the Israeli victimization stance. Sadly, anti-Semites actually do occasionally insinuate themselves into this discourse. They exchange the words “jew” for “zionist” but are otherwise making the same blood libels that have haunted jews in the west since the first crusade. The reason the holocaust is unique among atrocities perpetuated by mankind is not in the numbers killed, the horrendous efficiency in the execution of the murders, or the fact that it was based on a systematic application of racist ideology that has taken over one of the great western civilizations for more than a decade. It is because the holocaust is often perceived as part of an unending cycle of violence against jews in the west. The most extreme, to be sure, but only one of many. Jews see the denial of the holocaust as the harbinger of its eventual justification, and possibly its repetition. The people making the arguments are different - now it’s Hamas spokespeople and Irani presidents � but the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are still a popular source. Most disturbing is the insinuation, presented in the comments above occasionally, that the mistreatment of the palestinians by Israelis through the occupation, jews are really bringing righteous anger on themselves. One needs a great deal of care in applying the first amendment: the nazi party used democratic principles fully in its quest for political growth. It was individual decisions made by newspaper editors and publishers which allowed them to spread their bile.
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Dear Badger Herald,
I’ll pay you $200 to not talk about Jewish stuff for 1 week. Seriously.
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What makes the Holocaust unique is that one group of non citizens ( Jews) are alleging they were the victims of a planned genocide by a second group of non citizens ( Nazi’s) on land that is not part of America.
It is not an American problem.
However, American taxpayers have built and paid for more than 150 holocaust museums across the nation.
Yet, when those American taxpayers who seek to investigate the accuracy of holocaust claims, they are threatened with physical violence, often they are beaten and always harassed. How do you spell hate?
It leads the average bystander to ask- what is it they are trying to cover up.
To me it is very simple. The truth. I am convinced if the truth of this period were ever made known to the public, the flow of reparations would end. Hence the absolute determination to prevent a full and impartial investigation is ever carried out.
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I think this guy might actually be serious and not kidding. Frightening.
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Oh, so that’s it — the Holocaust is just another plot by those dirty, dirty Jews to steal money from American taxpayers.
But that’s just a small part of it, Wilhelm. You forgot to mention the part where the Elders of Zion collaborated with the Illuminati, the Legion of Doom, the Bogeyman, and the Underpants Gnomes to steal organs from white people while they sleep!
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It is a fact that the Nazis murdered 6 million Jews. They weren’t all murdered in the camps, but they were murdered. The Nazis also had mobile killing units that roamed European countries that they occupied. Also, like 3:21PM, I’m interested in knowing why Holocaust deniers are questioning the number of Jews who were murdered and not the numbers of other groups that were targeted, like wilhelm denying that Catholics were targeted at all.
wilhelm, I have a strong suspicion that you are actually a liberal. Care to confirm or deny?
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The gist of Mr. Braun’s letter, and some commenters’ feelings, is that the continuance of the advert is dangerous because many readers in the UW community are “young” and have “yet to form their own opinions”.
Sold! The college experience is a perfect venue for people to form their opinions. And that fire is fueled by exposure. Besides, how can anyone be sure that the Holocaust did in fact take place? Maybe I should buy ad space and link to some proof. Would that be somehow more valid than Smith’s ad?
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What I don’t understand is, even Hilberg admitted no documents relating to murder have ever been found. We all know that no physical evidence has ever been produced. So, why does everyone believe it? I am sure this state mandated ‘education/brainwashing’ has something to do with it.
Get’em while they’re young!
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This really should have stated that Jonah Braun works (worked?) for The Badger Herald.
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“This really should have stated that Jonah Braun works (worked?) for The Badger Herald.”
What does that matter? He completely criticized them on the entire issue. He doesn’t work for them anymore, he’s not even in the country.
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Suppose it was alleged that the Americans exterminated Japanese in the camps in Ca. by placing them in a closed room, and tossing in Raid aerosol bombs bought at the local Home Depot.
Idiotic, right?
Yet, that is how we are told the Nazis exterminated six million Jews, with Zyklon-B, a commercial insecticide that was used all over Europe. It came in small tin cans, about the size of a Raid aerosol bomb. Zyklon-B had a special scent added for safety purposes. It was used to kill lice in the camps to prevent the spread of tyhpus. The Nazis, according to the holocaust, put it to dual use, using it to exterminate the Jews. The exalt product. As if the US used Raid bombs from Home Depot the exterminate the Japanese.
Idiotic, right?
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Well, the evidence is pretty clear that the Nazis DID use Zyklon-B, which is basically hydrogen cyanide, to murder millions of Jews, while the Americans DID NOT do the same to the Japanese Americans.
So yes, if you did claim that the Nazis didn’t murder the Jews this way or that the US did so murder Japanese Americans, you would be an idiot. And a liar. And a bigot. And basically just plain garbage.
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Your first point: stupid.
Zyklon B. Responsible for the biggest mass murder of all time. Your “arguments” make no sense and are unfounded. You want forensic evidence? Read this scientific report based out of Krakow that proves that there are cyanide remnants in the gas chambers, not in the bunkers. http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
“It was used to kill lice in the camps to prevent the spread of tyhpus.”
Are you serious? Typhus and lice were some of the biggest problems that Nazis chose to exacerbate by putting their prisoners in overcrowded ghettos and bunkers with almost no food, water, access to bathrooms, no showers, etc.
You can choose what you want to believe, but that doesn’t mean you’re right. Stop telling me that gas chambers didn’t exist. I’ve seen them first hand. There are living witnesses that saw thousands die every day. Ask the sonderkommandos, who moved bodies from the chambers to the crematorium several times a day if it happened. I think you’ll get a pretty convincing answer.
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hahaha..how can you deny that there is no documents or no evidence. Have you even been to germany? Have you visited the concentration camps? I have. Theres literally thousands of pictures/videos of jews being killed and put into graves/pits. Are the germans in on the cover up of not killing jews? I don’t think so. they are actually quite ashamed.
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“Typhus and lice were some of the biggest problems that Nazis chose to exacerbate by putting their prisoners in overcrowded ghettos and bunkers with almost no food, water, access to bathrooms, no showers, etc. ”
This is 100% false.
The Red Cross made regular inspections to Auschwitz. They reported clean and sanitary conditions. Detainees had access to dentists, doctors and a range of other activities such as a library ( 40,000 volumes), chapel, swimming pool, soceer field, theatre, cantina, bakery, 12 kitchens and a set of classrooms for children as well as several orchestras. Many couples were married in Auschwitz and 3000 babies were born there. I guess those facts somehow get left off the TV propoganda.
As to the over crowding, there certainly existed over crowded camps in 1945. Near the end of the war the retreating Germans moved camp detainees further west. It remained a tolerable situation.
What made life horrible for camp detainees was the fact Americans were bombing the rail lines leading to Auschwitz and had cut off all food supplies. This led to starvation among most of the camp population, and provided a PR coup for Gen Eisenhower when he marched into the camps with a hollywood script writer as his side. Thus he could provide americans back home with proof, living proof of how evil the Nazi’s were.
Americans could see the TV pictures or photos in LIFE magazine. So there you have it, proof of the most evil man on earth who had carried out a policy of starvation towards these innocent camp detainees. Nothing to discuss!
except the man’s name is FDR, not Adolf.
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Well, that confirms it: Wilhelm is just another Nazi moron.
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Martin Broszat, former director of the German Institute for Contemporary History, admitted that the homicidal gas chambers alleged to have been found and �proven� as such by the Americans and British were malicious fabrications. In 1960, he admitted in Die Zeit: �Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen Belsen nor in Buchenwald were jews or other prisoners gassed.�
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“Many couples were married in Auschwitz and 3000 babies were born there. I guess those facts somehow get left off the TV propoganda.”
Wow. This is just getting absurd. After looking through about 40 articles, over the past day, I can only come to the conclusion that you are illiterate. Babies were not born at Auschwitz, they were murdered just like everybody else.
The closest thing they had to a doctor was Mengele, who would perform experiments on Jews and Romani children. After they died he would dissect their bodies. Very humanitarian.
“Near the end of the war the retreating Germans moved camp detainees further west. It remained a tolerable situation.”
You’re right. They were called “Death Marches,” where, from the 60,000 remaining prisoners at Auschwitz alone, 15,000 people died.
“Americans could see the TV pictures or photos in LIFE magazine.”
Have you heard of Theresienstadt? The Nazi regime’s puppet camp used to show the Red Cross and the rest of the world how “nice” they were to the Jews.
Get a clue man, you have absolutely no idea of what you’re talking about. Frankly, it’s embarrassing.
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I think whilhelm was being a troll. I truly doubt anyone could believe that they [the Jews at Auschwitz] had access to a library of 40,000 volumes. I actually laughed throughout reading his response it was so absurd.
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I doubt that anyone leaving anti-Semitic and Holocaust-denying remarks is actually a student. You have to be incredibly bigoted and closed-minded to believe that pathetic, hateful nonsense. I like to think that the admissions process weeds out most of those people. So whoever’s here from Smith’s message boards - how about you go back to the shit-hole you came from and continue circle-jerking your neo-Nazi buddies?
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BADGER HERALD IS A RAY OF SUNSHINE IN THE DARKNESS AT MADISON.
The protests against the Badger Herald are a sad example of narrow-mindedness and intolerance on some campuses. These protests, not the ad, are the real stain on the community.
The Badger Herald did the right thing by running the ad about the holocaust debate site (CODOH).
A university is supposed to be a center of learning and knowledge. Students should be exposed to multiple points of view about different topics. It is shocking that students now are protesting FOR intolerance and repression. If they do not agree with revisionists, they do not have to go their websites, but to prevent other students from that option is intolerance and narrow-mindedness.
The Badger Herald, by standing tall for tolerance and free speech, has shown itself to be ray of sunshine. It should continue to run such ads in the future.
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It’s claimed that throughout 1944 Germans kept the murders and cremations of 3,000 a day at Auschwitz-Birkenau secret from surrounding villagers through high fences and a 2/3 mile wide no-entry zone, so the Allies didn’t know until 2 escapees told their stories in August, 1944. But if thousands a day were being murdered, the Allies would have known about them, as Birkenau was located in the center of a heavily populated flat river valley surrounded by farms, roads, villages, and large towns, without a no-entry zone, and only one see-through wire fence 10 feet from the supposed gas chambers where thousands of Poles a day would have heard cries and seen the victims and Britain and America would have been told about the mass murders.
Following this argument, British, American, and Soviet air-forces, who had photographed the camps from the air and could have bombed the rail-lines, rail-bridges, and large Cremation buildings, from April to December, 1944, didn�t drop any bombs on the camps or railway lines even though camps were over-flown many times to bomb adjacent industrial buildings such as at Auschwitz-Birkenau, where bombs were released from American bombers directly over the large Cremation buildings to land on the synthetic-rubber and chemical complex 3 miles (5 kms) east, but absolutely no bombs were dropped on or anywhere near Auschwitz-Birkenau.
The only possible reason America did not bomb the Auschwitz Cremation buildings and railway lines in 1944 was their research concluded prisoners were not being murdered or hurt in the visible camps.
Can anyone offer another explanation why America didn’t bomb Auschwitz or the surrounding rail lines?
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Sure. I’ll bite.
First, why do you suppose that the obvious course of action for the Allies, having knowledge of atrocities at the camp, would be to bomb it ? Does that make sense to you?
As to your question about “another explanation why America didn’t bomb Auschwitz,” try this:
1) The Allies didn’t specifically TARGET Auschwitz because it was of no great strategic value, unlike standalone factories in the surrounding area.
2) The Allies specifically AVOIDED Auschwitz because it was a camp full of innocent prisoners.
By the logic implied in your post, had the Allies discovered gross mistreatment of soldiers in Nazi POW camps, they would have bombed the camps and everyone in them to rubble. Come on. You cannot think that’s a sound argument.